Scaling Tik Tok shops from $500-$10k a day
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In this episode Edwin Hermawan and Tristram Dyer meet with Sebastian Vogue, owner of Vogg Media a TikTok first agency, to discuss the power of TikTok for performance marketing.
Sebastian shares insights on attribution models, the importance of understanding the platform's metrics along with a few strategies for scaling campaigns on TikTok. He emphasizes the significance of content creation/testing and the need for a diverse range of content and the role of in-house creators.
The guys discuss the structure of campaigns for both small and large businesses and how to target specific age groups on TikTok (particularly those in the 21 to 24 age range). This also includes how you can create premium audiences through the use of custom audiences to reach you desired demographic. Sebastian follows this up with the importance of performance content and the need to avoid high-polished branding content on TikTok. He suggests using passion pages and user-generated content (UGC) to promote brands effectively. Sebastian also shares insights on managing content in-house and the benefits of the Foxwell Founders community.
Key Takeaways:
How TikTok can be a powerful platform for performance marketing and how it can even outperform platforms like Facebook.
How to understand attribution models and metrics on TikTok to improve campaign optimization.
Why scaling campaigns on TikTok requires a combination of manual adjustments and creative content production.
Why starting with simple setups and gradually expanding works on TikTok regardless of the size of your brand.
Why performance content is crucial on TikTok, and high-polished branding may not resonate with the audience. (Authentic and relatable content tends to perform better.)
How passion pages and user-generated content (UGC) can be effective ways to promote brands on TikTok without associating directly with the brand.
If you'd like to learn more about Sebastian and his TikTok first agency you can learn more here: https://voggs.net/en/ If you'd like join or learn more about the Foxwell Founders Community you can do so at: https://foxwelldigital.com/foxwellfounders.
Full Transcript:
Tris Dyer (00:01.334)
Yeah. And so we just, we hit record from the start. Cause if there's anything like we're chatting is, you know, whatever. Uh, and so, uh, the idea is here. We'll say, listen, thanks for coming on. Thanks for, thanks for coming on. I mean, it's, yeah, yeah, man. It's, it's, uh, it was funny when we, we, we've been putting this stuff together and Tik Tok, uh, was one of the, obviously the big ones that came up and, uh, the first name that came to the hat was, uh, came out the hat was yourself in terms of, uh, um, uh, Andrew kind of said to us, look,
Sebastian (00:07.674)
Yes.
Sebastian (00:12.444)
Thank you guys for the invitation. Thank you.
Edwin @ Snappic (00:15.234)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (00:30.326)
if you're gonna be talking TikTok Seb's your guy. So that's why I was hounding you a little bit. I was kind of like, I don't wanna get this going. So yeah, thanks for joining. Have you been doing much TikTok then?
Sebastian (00:33.54)
Yeah.
Sebastian (00:42.492)
One second! One sec, sorry, I just have to go to the door quickly, tell my wife, just that I have to report Kess and I'm already okay, sorry.
Edwin @ Snappic (00:47.908)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (00:48.15)
Okay.
Edwin @ Snappic (00:52.108)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (00:52.246)
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, take your time, take your time. So tell me, Edwin, you smashed your phone.
Edwin @ Snappic (00:58.148)
Yeah, I smashed my phone and then it was like, uh, and then, and then I was like, all right, fine. And I replaced it because I'm a fucking grownup. And then, and then I went to the gym and it's been a while since it was my first session back. And then I, I strained my neck. And so I got one of those stingers like that went all the way up and down. Uh, no, no, no, it, it went down to here, but I couldn't pick up the kid. I couldn't like, it was hard for me to do bath time.
Tris Dyer (01:07.618)
Sorry.
Tris Dyer (01:18.582)
Yeah, yeah, down to your fingers.
Tris Dyer (01:26.166)
Oh, man. Jesus. We're in a bad time.
Edwin @ Snappic (01:28.324)
Uh, but, but now bro, it was like a bad three days. I was like, I was like, I don't have COVID, but I got all this other shit now.
Tris Dyer (01:35.862)
Yeah, feeling sorry for yourself. Yeah, I can imagine. I can imagine, right?
Edwin @ Snappic (01:39.108)
So what were you up to this weekend?
Sebastian (01:43.59)
This weekend a friend of mine had birthday. I planned with my wife together we planned a trip to Vietnam. We're traveling on Thursday.
Actually, we wanted to do it initially last year in November, but then like the Q4 was so insane that we, I wasn't able to, if I would travel there, I would like stayed up all night because of the time zone difference in Germany also. So yeah, that's why we're traveling now for two weeks and yeah, that's the plan.
Tris Dyer (02:14.838)
Nice, nice, nice. I painted my houses again. I'll show you this. This is the man. It's painting. I see why people bring in the painters. I'm like, I'm a do it yourself kind of guy. You can see me up here. You can see this. It's me up on a wall painting. So we've got a, so you've got hardwood floors and we've got a big fireplace for the, like in front of the chimney. So I was like, oh, I could paint this. Two coats in, I'm like.
Edwin @ Snappic (02:19.394)
Whoa.
Edwin @ Snappic (02:24.738)
Yeah.
Sebastian (02:29.666)
Nice.
Tris Dyer (02:43.222)
I can't paint this, but fuck it, I'm committed now, so I'm gonna do it. But my wife has rented an industrial sander to sand our hardwood floors. I was like, oh, that should be fun. It's like holding a printer on your floor and you're gonna give it the shakes. So yeah, I'm gonna, fuck it. You see me, Edwin, I'm a big guy, I'm gonna give it a go.
Sebastian (02:44.092)
Okay. Okay. Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (02:46.692)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (02:55.596)
Yeah
Sebastian (02:55.612)
Ah, nice. Yeah, that sounds...
Edwin @ Snappic (03:03.044)
But I don't know if you realize this Seb, but Triss is like, he's like a big dude. He used to play rugby and if he's running down the field towards you, you don't want to be in his path. It's like...
Sebastian (03:03.14)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (03:10.934)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (03:15.99)
Yeah. Yeah, it's it's it's it doesn't come across in this like you don't look huge, but like I'm six, four, I don't like 190 centimeters, 195 centimeters and like 250 pounds or 125 kilos. So it's it's a yeah. Like I said, I'm a big dude, so I'm able to handle it. But sometimes you bite off more than you can chew. Anyway, you didn't come here to hear about my weekend. Let's let's crack into it. So.
Sebastian (03:17.04)
Okay.
Sebastian (03:37.37)
Mm.
Tris Dyer (03:41.238)
So generally the way we do this is gonna be a general chat. It's hit record from the start, so we're just gonna be chatting away for the hour, you know, 40 minutes or so. Hit you with a load of questions. Not all of them you're gonna be able to answer. What I will say to you is we've got an editor that will cut it out, so if you're halfway through a point or if you lose your idea or something, you wanna go back to the start of it, go ahead, just say, hey, Nina, edit this out. Nina's the lady that does it. That's absolutely fine. We'll keep, we'll...
react as if it's brand new. Another thing you'll notice is it's delayed on our side, delayed on your side. What's happening is it's just going up into the server for Riverside. So it's actually going to come out perfect like it were all the same, but it just, it may look a bit like pixelated or weird. So don't worry about that. That stuff all catches up itself. Anything else I'm missing Edwin? I don't know if there's kind of smile and be yourself.
Edwin @ Snappic (04:33.188)
No, just, yeah, we just, we just talked the real shit. Whatever. You could, you could be as real as you want. Like, uh, yeah, I, yeah, it should be even better.
Tris Dyer (04:40.404)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (04:45.238)
Yeah, I was gonna say go as deep as you want and if you feel like, oh, maybe that's a bit too nerdy or you know, whatever. I love the feedback you were giving this morning of like, oh, maybe that's a bit like a workaround or whatever. Love that. Let's go into that in detail and we can cut it out. But yeah, Edwin, in terms of the intro, do you wanna, because I know that Andrew is introing the overall intro, but do you wanna maybe start an intro and then we can do an outro at the end?
Edwin @ Snappic (05:10.436)
Yeah, Seb, how do you want me to introduce you? Like, is there a way you want me to introduce you?
Sebastian (05:16.508)
Um, you can say that we, so we started as a, um, regular, uh, like classic Facebook marketing agency back in the like Ecom era, 2016 or so. Okay. And now a transition basically to, to the, um, first official batch tick tock marketing partner agency in, in duck. So in Europe actually, actually. So like we, we, we made our.
I don't know how to put it, but like we, since 2019, we basically grew pretty significantly on TikTok. And that's basically like the, the, um, the legacy that we, that we put on. And then we have that as kind of introduction that we moved from a classic performance agency to a. TikTok first agency. We're not only TikTok, but.
As of now, you know, the main focus point and the content and just generally how we work. That's that. So you get an idea like on what you can, what you can say. And I basically, I'm the founder. I founded the company back in 2016. Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (06:17.188)
And then.
Tris Dyer (06:17.366)
How many people have you got Seb?
Sebastian (06:19.292)
We're 13 people. So pretty, pretty small. Um, always like focused a lot on the, on the, on the being lean, efficient, uh, not hiring too many people because we wanted to, we, I have like colleagues who have like a hundred employees or so same age as me, but we never really, um, went down that road because we were remote, you know, I'm based in Dubai. The other guys are in Germany, the other guy in Portugal. So all across the globe basically. And that's basically how we, how we did it. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (06:21.27)
30 people, yeah.
Well, yeah.
Tris Dyer (06:33.398)
Mm -hmm.
Tris Dyer (06:42.07)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Come in for someone with 35 people. More money, more people, more problems, mate. It's not, you're doing it the right way.
Sebastian (06:51.548)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (06:53.796)
And how, and how much do you have under management or do you, do you, do you want to say or just the ballpark? Yeah.
Sebastian (06:58.138)
At spend you mean? Yeah, well, it depends of course seasonality, but like yearly roughly with all channels combined, we're looking at around like eight to 10 million or so. So a million a month is generally what I say, but sometimes it's more in November of course, it was more.
Edwin @ Snappic (07:16.228)
So we'll say like 12 million, over 10 million in our management. Okay, all right. Cool.
Tris Dyer (07:18.518)
Of course, yeah.
Sebastian (07:21.372)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tris Dyer (07:23.094)
Yeah, super. Okay, kick it off, Edwin. And do you to, you're going to kick it back to me, Edwin? I how you're going to do it. Just ask, you ask the first cue and I'll jump in if there's anything.
Edwin @ Snappic (07:30.692)
Well, I'll intro and then you hit on the first queue and then I'll hit the second one. Okay. All right. Welcome you guys. We have another one for you this week. I'm Edwin and we have Sebas from Vogg Media who is you guys are going to love this. He is the first official TikTok marketing agency partner in all of Europe ever ever Manages over $10 million a year.
Tris Dyer (07:35.51)
Okay.
Tris Dyer (07:42.358)
I'm Tris.
Edwin @ Snappic (08:00.548)
And guys, he is TikTok first. He is not someone that came from Facebook and then is trying to do TikTok. Seb has committed all the way and is gonna tell us all the secrets, all of the tea. He's gonna spill all the tea on TikTok for us. Tris, kick us off.
Tris Dyer (08:18.358)
Hey Seb, how you doing? So, I mean, look, TikTok first is a big statement, right? It's a very forward thinking way of doing things. Meta is a big thing for a lot of people, but TikTok is really where they're seeing growth. Just quick question to you first, and this is something we haven't prepared before. Where are you seeing your growth in TikTok right now? Where's the biggest growth for clients that you're working with?
Sebastian (08:41.116)
Yeah, I think, uh, UGC and the, the, the word UGC is a buzzword overused and a lot of people are talking about it, but, um, there's like good quality UGC or like this content UGC I would say. And then there's like people really understanding and knowing how to produce content that works on the platform. Um, Especially performance marketing, because I see too many people still talking about, oh, TikTok is a high funnel kind of a strategy thing. And you can't redo performance marketing there, which.
I don't think is true at all. You can scale significantly on TikTok. It can be even a bigger channel than Meta because like for some it's a so for yeah, bold statement, bold statement. But I would say, I would say, yes, it's not just a supportive channel. It depends on the niche and of course also on the demographic of your audience. But I would say, and we also did that in the past.
Edwin @ Snappic (09:21.604)
Whoa. This is bold. Hot take.
Tris Dyer (09:23.99)
Yeah, he's calling some big shots early. Go on.
Sebastian (09:40.572)
We scaled some brands like let's say software as a service or like apps, financial sectors, especially like these kinds of services to like 60-70 % of the whole ad spend share just on TikTok, you know, so that that's possible. I would say, but.
Edwin @ Snappic (09:50.18)
Okay?
Edwin @ Snappic (09:56.034)
Whoa.
Tris Dyer (09:57.302)
Cool. Let's break that down, because that's a big one. And this is something that, you know, talking to two guys who run a lot of Meta ads, and we see some wild stuff when it comes to TikTok, and it's so exciting. So nice to actually talk to you and hear, you know, you're moving to 60-70 % TikTok. So how are you doing it? So obviously people didn't scale to that level. They're looking for results directly from TikTok. They're not necessarily looking at third party tools. You know, tell me a bit more about the attribution within TikTok. Is it the same seven day?
Click one day view or is there something different?
Sebastian (10:29.084)
Yeah. So it's a seven one from, from a standard default window. Um, and attribution model is also a less touch attribution. So it's similar to, to Meta. Um, as we can see, um, however, um, I would like everyone who's doing performance marketing should check their view and click windows, right. And to, to, to keep in mind what the platform tells you and what.
Tris Dyer (10:38.87)
Hey.
Tris Dyer (10:49.972)
Mm.
Sebastian (10:53.884)
Like the real truth is what is the real truth. Big question, of course, attribution, but like what, what are we looking at in terms of, let's say GA data last click, or what are we looking in terms of attribution tools, you know, triple whale, all these kinds of different things where you have like these data driven attribution tools. Um, in, in that sense, I would say.
Edwin @ Snappic (10:56.676)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (10:56.822)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (11:07.476)
Mm -hmm.
Sebastian (11:15.612)
If you look at a seven click window and a zero day view, and then you compare, look at the view one day view as well. And you.
Get more of the click people in there and you have more click conversions. You already already should have a similar kind of picture in your other data, right? And in NGA and like a relation between those, because sometimes when you have, of course, um, look too much on the view, uh, attributions, you might scale into the wrong direction, right? You'll scale campaigns that might be top of funnel, but you're missing out on the, on the real clicks and people are converting somewhere else. Um,
But overall, in terms of the whole attribution thing,
From what I have seen, you can of course also go into tools like attribution analytics on TikTok, where you can like break it down a little bit more in detail. How many people have been in a one day click? How many in a seven day click? How many in a one day view? How many in a seven day view? If somebody wants to go as that go that far, you know, maybe somebody wants to start and see if there's any influence at all on TikTok on conversions. But generally when I start with clients, I go with a seven day one, but I have
I live in Dubai and have some clients that work in the Saudi region and they try to only go for a one day click and zero day view. So they have pretty hard goals, especially on GA data. And actually we're pretty close. Let's say you have a 1.5X ROAS on GA, you have a 2X ROAS on the platform for only click conversions, which is...
Tris Dyer (12:36.948)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (12:38.594)
Whoa.
Tris Dyer (12:39.286)
It has to be from there.
Sebastian (12:55.676)
Kind of close. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (12:56.15)
Yeah, and so going back just a step to that so if you were to have a hill that you die on you say this is the the Attribution that you should be looking at I'm starting TikTok I'm a brand I spend $70 ,000 a month on Meta and things are rolling I want to start rolling on TikTok because one of the I'll break this down into two questions one of the things that we're seeing with some of our clients that are moving over to TikTok is They're saying oh, well, we'll get loads of views on TikTok and we can we target them on Meta. That's the
Edwin @ Snappic (12:56.868)
Wait, so...
Tris Dyer (13:24.054)
the kind of way TikTok have worked their way into this fair, this playground. But now you're saying that actually if you go, what is it, seven day click, one day view, and you look at just your click data, you can actually take some of that top of funnel and the retargeting budget as well. You can really start to pull that budget away from Meta.
Sebastian (13:40.828)
Yeah. And you, you wait, if you check your CTA, like there's a column, you can select the CTA conversion column, which is just click attribute conversions. And if you then select, uh, on the ad group level, only a, let's say if you like really want to be very, very strict, you can even select one day, click only on ad group settings as attribution window. And then you'll see like for yourself, if you get any, any, any conversions in there or not. But, um, I would say if somebody's just starting out.
Tris Dyer (13:47.638)
Mm -hmm.
Sebastian (14:09.34)
to get more data and you know, a 7 .1 is the best way to start. But of course be like very critical in terms of, and like challenge yourselves in terms of is the data representative of what is happening or am I not getting any incrementality at all? You know, because that's the question.
But I think it needs to be also not only looked at from a platform side, but also like from a offer side. Maybe you need to go into a TikTok offer. You know, we have a specific TikTok coupon code. You have a specific TikTok landing page because like just taking the Meta stuff and running it on TikTok might work, but also like can be pretty, uh, you know, not a good idea, not a good idea, maybe.
Tris Dyer (14:46.678)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (14:47.3)
So going back to people, so people that are just getting started, right? It's hard to get a sense of like, is this working or not? Right? So let's talk about e -commerce. Let's talk about e -commerce specifically and let's talk about benchmarks. So like e -commerce fashion and e -commerce, just like performance products. Like if your back hurts, this is a device to help your back hurt. So e -commerce fashion.
What are the benchmarks that you're looking at, like in terms of on -platform ROAS, click -through rates and stop rates? And then what are those same benchmarks for e -commerce for performance products?
Sebastian (15:25.584)
Yeah. So, uh, for the U S I'm, maybe I don't have to exact data now because we do a lot of in Europe. We have some U S clients. So it will be of course different in terms of CPMs and stuff. But, um, let's say in terms of ROAS on a, on a fashion client, um, depending also like on how expensive the fashion is, let's say we have like a pretty.
Okay, a price and not that high of an AOV Yeah, if you if you're hitting a 2x ROAS on the tick tov platform for that I would say that is pretty pretty solid and that would also be a good benchmark to go to go at in terms of like CTRs, I would say but I would also basically
have that for all performance products and also for fashion. But if you're like at a 0 .5 CTR on TikTok, that's also really good. I would say like 1 % CTR is like very, very good. If you have a 1 % CTR on TikTok, you're, you're hitting that and you're, you're, you're winning. Yeah. You get pretty, pretty good results. If the conversion rate is as stable as with 0 .5. So I would say, uh, in.
Tris Dyer (16:26.646)
You're winning.
Sebastian (16:37.02)
I can't really like differentiate between the fashion and the regular e -commerce products. I would say on TikTok because e -commerce on TikTok is, I would say not as easy as a service product or a kind of app, you know, or like Legion and stuff. So app installs and in -app events in my opinion, or in my experience are a little bit more efficient and easier than like the classic Instagrammable e -com stuff. So this is like.
Edwin @ Snappic (16:53.188)
Oh.
Edwin @ Snappic (17:05.86)
Whoa.
Sebastian (17:06.3)
Maybe to clarify that a little bit, a little bit more in detail because we actually, we have pretty big chunk of the clients is not only e -comm, but mainly even like in terms of spend, let's say like services, like in Germany you have like text declarations and text declaration is a big thing, you know, and you can basically use a service that they do a text declaration for you. And that is a big thing on TikTok. And we actually did the first client back in 2020.
Edwin @ Snappic (17:15.3)
Okay.
Edwin @ Snappic (17:25.444)
Okay.
Sebastian (17:35.42)
We started the first text decoration app on TikTok and that nobody did that before. It was like, nobody thought it would work, but that was like interesting to see, you know, how, how these kinds of products really took off on TikTok compared to the e -commerce, which took a little bit more time to mature, you know, and to work on TikTok. That's at least what I, what I see. And now I think the e -commerce is working generally better than it was in the past.
Edwin @ Snappic (17:43.114)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (17:59.892)
Yeah.
Sebastian (18:00.476)
But like, because you were asking the metrics and the KPIs, that's why it came up in my mind that this is a little bit of a different kind of environment as it is on like a Meta where like e -commerce is like the classic, classic performance thing. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (18:16.086)
Yeah, and so talk to me then a bit about scaling because like we'll come to back to creative and understanding UGC and everything in a second but when it comes to scaling you talked there about if you're hitting a 1 % CTR I'm quickly looking at some of the accounts here. We're hitting in some cases We're hitting close to 2 % CTR. So maybe I'm looking at the wrong CTR number I think a CTR destination. That's the one I'm looking at. Is that the wrong one or is there another one?
Sebastian (18:39.164)
That should be a wrap on if you're reading those CTR numbers, you're flying. Yeah, that's good. That's good. But what kind of campaign objective do you have there? Is it like a classic conversion, web conversion campaign? Mm -hmm, nice.
Tris Dyer (18:43.254)
Pump it up, pump it up, yeah. Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (18:45.188)
You gotta charge more.
Tris Dyer (18:50.034)
That was a conversion campaign, yeah. But we have admittedly, we have, because this is the other thing we'll talk about in a second, about optimization. We started with Add to Cart because we weren't getting enough purchases from it. Then we moved it to Convert to Purchase. But what we've got, and this is what I'm asking. So are you, the theory that I've heard before and other people in the community have talked about this, you know, they say scale it to 300 and then duplicate it and start it again and start bringing that up rather than just going.
Sebastian (19:00.1)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (19:16.982)
Because in Meta, if we see something working, we continue to scale 15 % a day, 15%, 15%, and so on. That compounds. But is it the same in TikTok or how are you scaling?
Sebastian (19:28.092)
Hmm, so I think that's basically everybody who has their own kind of way Tries it out if it works it works, but doesn't doesn't
Tris Dyer (19:36.502)
Yeah.
Sebastian (19:39.516)
I've been doing basically any kind of thing back in Meta. We did similar to you guys. And then we had different approaches of scaling and the accounts. But let's say as of 2024, TikTok, when I want to scale something and we have like some accounts, like let's say they do 20 to 30 K a day. And we want to push that as efficiently as possible.
Most of it is manually going like nuts on the, on the campaigns that work. Okay. So you have a campaign. Some of them are paused through the night even, because we try to focus only on the.
very, very short timeframes, let's say starting from 12 PM, like at noon till let's say six to 8 PM in terms of time during the day where you get the most conversion volume and also the lowest CPA or CAC. And there we basically...
Go like it say you have to campaign at 200 in the morning. You see it's taking off. You see it's performing well and we increase to 2kK 2000 or so. So it's like very, yes, very, very, very drastic increases in terms of spend. Um, why is that the case? Um, necessarily I wouldn't say it's like a good idea for the algorithm in terms of like, if you like think about it, it doesn't make sense a lot, but.
Tris Dyer (20:46.422)
When it's taking off you hit.
Sebastian (21:02.716)
From what I see, the tick to algorithm responds a little bit better to like these kinds of dressing increases because the, it, first of all, it takes a little bit of time until you, of course, the pacing starts to increase and you spend more per hour. And, um, then you, if a creative really performs, and I just had this last week, one creative.
Edwin @ Snappic (21:09.668)
Oh.
Edwin @ Snappic (21:16.612)
Yeah?
Sebastian (21:24.316)
Like it's an absolute winner. You see it's, you cannot scale it even enough during the day. And then you increase it. Like that drastic, let's say you have three campaigns. One is an iOS campaign, one Android and one web conversions. And I increase it to 2kK and I see, okay, next couple of one to two hours. And when the pacing starts to increase, you know, you spend more per hour. Still going higher than I might increase to five, six, seven, eight, whatever makes the most sense.
But, but like then in the evening, you have to be very, very quick and very strict because otherwise you're overspending massively because Tiktok just wants to, you push out the budget. You can of course do this with reveal bot or whatever your tool is, but I do it with my brain and like, because in that, in that sense, when you, when you, when you try to be that close to the account, I think it makes sense to do it yourself. Right. Because that's just, and the efficiency is easier there.
Tris Dyer (21:53.588)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (21:59.8)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (22:01.366)
Yeah, yeah.
Tris Dyer (22:08.918)
Hahaha.
Edwin @ Snappic (22:09.252)
Hahaha!
Edwin @ Snappic (22:14.146)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (22:15.67)
Mm -hmm.
Sebastian (22:20.156)
And yeah, that's, that's how I scale like the bigger accounts. Um, very, very on the account, very focused on what is working at which hour of the day. And, um, then of course, which is the main kind of thing that I didn't mention, but it should be, I think everyone's had content, right? The UGC at the contents and whatever you're doing, we try to pump out as much as we can and be as creative as we can. Right. So.
Tris Dyer (22:41.622)
Mmm.
Sebastian (22:49.276)
This is of course the main thing and for an account that spends, I don't know, like 10k a day, we want to hit like at least.
200 videos a month or something. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so.
Edwin @ Snappic (23:03.268)
Whoa, whoa, wait, so, so, so, so let's, let's, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that because, so it sounds like you got a factory, but so 200 videos a month, right. In my experience, I've always found the creative, TikTok, the most challenging thing has, for me has always been generating enough creative, right. And so where are you getting the creative from? Is it from the client? Are you.
Tris Dyer (23:03.35)
Okay, wow. Okay, so now we've hit 200 videos a month. Wow!
Sebastian (23:10.364)
Yes.
Sebastian (23:16.828)
when it is.
Edwin @ Snappic (23:32.996)
Are you getting freelancers? And then if it's freelancers, like tell me, dish the tea. Tell me how are you producing this much?
Sebastian (23:39.94)
Yeah.
So like I would say most of the content that we do on TikTok is in -house. And what I mean with in -house is we have employees who do design work and content and shoot content, you know, so creator content with selfies, even myself. I started the first TikTok client with content from me, myself, because nobody had did any UGC, right? Back in the day in 2020, nobody did like classic UGC. Nobody knew what was...
Performing on tiktok because it was so new for everyone, right? So, um, yeah, we basically invented the UTC That the way we did it in Germany I think or we were like the pioneers at least of course a lot of people came and copied it but we were pioneers in terms of the content in Germany and We on basically how we skate our agency we also skate the content production and we hired around So we have worked out with 20 to 30 creators
Edwin @ Snappic (24:12.228)
Yeah. Yeah.
Sebastian (24:39.9)
who are like part -time employed by us. So they're not like full employees, but they work with us either on a contractor basis or they are employed. And that's basically our creator team. And then this is basically the in -house outsource team, but they're still like exclusive to us in most cases. So they're not working with that many other agencies. And then we have our in -house team of around three to five people who do content all the time. And...
Edwin @ Snappic (24:40.196)
Okay.
Edwin @ Snappic (24:55.524)
Okay.
Sebastian (25:07.356)
That's basically in general, how our procedure works. We have our VGC manager. She's making sure that all the creators are briefed, you know, the video priorities are there. What kind of client has a priority? What of the other stuff, all these things. And then it's just basically depending on the client, how strict a client of course is, you know, some clients allow completely going crazy. Others are okay.
You can't do this. You can't say that you have to be very on script and basically that's that's basically the thing in terms of How the content is being generated then you have a review But the clients really scale with us. They don't review the content anymore. They just say Shoot just shoot. Yeah, and that's basically it and in terms of content ideation and ideas Yeah, there's a lot lot to be
Tris Dyer (25:52.246)
They trust you.
Sebastian (26:04.668)
done in terms of TikTok because it's so much stuff you can do and it's always changing so frequently what you can do. You have to cat meme. I guess you guys also saw it, right? We basically run that so much to the ground because it performed so well. Like in end of December last year, it was like really big, especially in Germany. And then you have like, I don't know if you saw like these newsflash videos where people are doing like these green screen, then you have somebody.
Edwin @ Snappic (26:25.092)
Okay.
Tris Dyer (26:30.312)
Thank you.
Sebastian (26:33.124)
Attention everyone, this is product XYZ and then this works for one week and you scale that into it, you know, into the ceiling basically. And you know, these are like these, I would say standard videos. And then you also have like the bread and butter videos. So the 20 % that really Excel and the 80 % you always have to have because they will generate an okay amount of volume on conversions. So, um, we try to always, you know, give our new creators ideas, do that.
Tris Dyer (26:57.142)
Mm -hmm.
Sebastian (27:02.748)
first ourselves, the crazy stuff, send it to them. They can redo the stuff. They can also do their own things. And that's how we basically keep it as mixed up and as different differentiated or as creative as possible, because we want to make sure we hit everyone from different angles and get the people interested who might watch a video that is different than the other one, right? Because everybody's different in terms of what they, what they watch now.
Tris Dyer (27:13.206)
Mmm.
Tris Dyer (27:31.638)
Yeah, I love that. I love that. And so in terms of your testing structure then, so if you're maybe at the 10K a day mark, let's talk, say something, say somebody's spending 2K a day. What's your structure then in terms of testing? So do you have the similar to Meta? Is it top, middle and bottom of funnel? Tofu, mofu, bofu? Or is there a testing campaign? Talk us through that. Cause that to me, that's what we're seeing the best performance in terms of replicating what was on Meta. But is there another way? Is the is the Vogg way of doing it?
Edwin @ Snappic (27:31.876)
And.
Sebastian (28:00.284)
Yeah, it's what's the box way. That's the question. Um, so yeah, with, with funnel stages, generally, I would also say make sense. But on TikTok to be honest, it doesn't really change a lot. Like I have some counts where you have like small retargeting, you know, seven day website, custom audience or view content add to cart But in terms of like scaling an account and like a $2k a day, it's also already okay.
way enough budget to test stuff, right? I wouldn't put into retargeting to be honest, just because it, just because I think with the $2K you can do more efficiently with the algorithm. Let, let it basically show it to who you think that might work. Yeah. I, I, and you, you'll down the way, um, hit people you that see in it on, you know, Facebook or Google or somewhere else. So I'm not, um,
Tris Dyer (28:32.63)
Mm -hmm.
Tris Dyer (28:42.454)
new people. Yeah, yeah.
Tris Dyer (28:51.414)
Mm.
Sebastian (28:54.62)
That big of an advocate in this time that we're in on retargeting on TikTok. I don't know. For now, it doesn't seem that it's like incrementality is like zero, I think, on retargeting. Like in terms of what you really get from your money. Yeah, what you get from your money, I don't see it that much, but it depends. Of course, if you're a huge retargeting audiences, why not? You know? So I wouldn't say.
Tris Dyer (28:59.99)
Sure, for sure.
Tris Dyer (29:10.006)
would have got them on top of funnel anyway.
Tris Dyer (29:19.926)
Yeah, yeah.
Sebastian (29:21.596)
I wouldn't say not do it, but if you have $2k a day, you not have like insanely huge audiences. So it makes more sense to, in my opinion, have like two SPC campaigns, like smart performance campaigns. That's like the same thing as advantage plus, right? Um, SPC's, one creative testing, one best performer campaign. You put the new content to new creative testing and whatever works, you put into the best performer. Of course. Yeah. No.
Tris Dyer (29:34.582)
Hmm.
Tris Dyer (29:47.062)
Okay, yeah, smart, smart.
Edwin @ Snappic (29:47.172)
So let's.
So let's talk about that. So let's say you have two people come in. You have one that's an e -comm store that's doing 20, 30K a month, right? The whole store overall, so smaller store. And then let's say you got one that's doing a hundred to a quarter million dollars a month, right? Tell me how are you structuring it for the small one? How are you structuring it for the big one? And what's the targeting look like?
Sebastian (30:12.86)
Yeah. So targeting, um, I, I, in both cases, I would just go with a broad and, um, first, before we talk about like these kinds of things, I would need to make sure that we get the right content and enough, enough content, because that's the main thing that we will need in terms of good performance on TikTok, right? If we don't have that, we, the setup is basically useless or in most cases useless. So, um, let's say we have that.
Then I would, then I would say, like I said, the two campaigns, I think that's the best approach also for the account that you said that is making like 20 K a month or something. I think if they have two S P C's, whatever they're spending, let's say a hundred a day or something, uh, or 200 a day, you'll still be good with two campaigns. Um, maybe only one campaign because you won't have best performance in the beginning because you have to test like creative. So the first campaign will be a testing campaign. You test budgets, right?
And if it works and you have some more room, you can consolidate the one that's that performs and the other was creative So you just keep testing in the creative testing campaign, but I wouldn't do any kind of crazy targeting thing. I would just go with very, very straightforward, um, broad targeting, which is already in the SPC. The only thing you can do except for exclusions or so. And with a bigger account, um, I would just.
Tris Dyer (31:34.26)
Mm.
Sebastian (31:39.964)
maybe, you know, add some regular campaigns on top of the SPCs because SPCs are efficient in terms of setup and quick. But if you want to go into more like a little bit of targeting, if you want to do a lookalike audience or anything in that sense, you would need a regular campaign. And then you can try like ABO, CBO, you know, these kinds of things. But I also wouldn't go, like in the beginning I would start as simple as possible, you know, to see like what
Tris Dyer (32:00.918)
Make sense. Make sense.
Sebastian (32:08.988)
what kicks off, what works. And then the setup gets more complex either way, because you're just, historically it will grow. You know, you will have more campaigns, you will have more testing campaigns, you will have more best performance campaigns. And then down the line, you will have, you will never be at a point, I think, where you have not enough campaigns, you know, to choose from. It's more about cleaning up, because otherwise it just gets messy very quickly and you're.
Tris Dyer (32:11.19)
Mm -hmm.
Tris Dyer (32:20.214)
Exactly.
Tris Dyer (32:34.006)
Yeah.
Sebastian (32:37.468)
losing an overview. Yeah. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (32:39.414)
Whether it's what's working, what's not is very clear. Just on SPC campaigns you talked about there, so smart performance campaigns, is there not a limit on that in terms of the amount of targeting you can do? Is it only 25 plus or something you can only target people like that? How do you get younger people?
Sebastian (32:55.868)
So it's 18 plus on the SPC, but the thing is with 18 plus on TikTok, I see for a lot of the audiences or like the results from my clients that the 18 to 21 range in TikTok is not as qualitative. So the quality of the audience is not as good as 21 plus. And the difference is there. And the thing with TikTok is you can only target 18 to 24, 25 to 34.
You have these brackets, right? So you can't select. Exactly. Exactly. Those people are the ones that already make money, but they're way more active on TikTok than somebody at 28, let's say. So, so how do you, how do you, how do you reach them? Um, and I actually found a workaround, which I don't know if it's approved by TikTok, but we will see it still works. It still works. Yes. Yeah. So.
Tris Dyer (33:25.078)
Yeah, yeah, I want 21 to 24.
Tris Dyer (33:34.678)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Edwin @ Snappic (33:44.964)
Hahaha!
Tris Dyer (33:47.126)
This is a Foxwell Founder special so people can hear it and we can use it here. So go on, tell us how do we target people 21 to 24?
Sebastian (33:54.524)
So if you have a TikTok rep, you can whitelist your account for premium audiences. And that is basically a collection of audiences, you know, different demographics or interests and stuff, hashtag audiences. There's a bunch of different stuff. But what you can do is when you create these premium audiences, it's basically the same way you would create a custom audience. You can create a premium audience. And then there's the way there's a radio button for...
Tris Dyer (34:00.886)
Okay.
Sebastian (34:22.46)
16 plus and 21 plus okay, so you can create a custom audience of people who are 21 plus so they includes everything from 21 onwards to how old people audience are there so what you can do you can create a 16 plus 16 plus audience of 21 plus audience and you can also create a custom audience now it gets very nerdy which Includes 16 to 21 okay That's a included audience and on the SPC
Tris Dyer (34:47.766)
Okay.
Okay.
Sebastian (34:52.316)
You cannot include audiences. You can only exclude audiences. So on the SPC side, you include, you, you exclude the included 60 to 21 people, which results in you only targeting 21 plus older. Okay. So that's basically the idea here, um, to target only people 21 plus older. And from what I've seen, I've been doing it for like, it's only like two weeks older. So it's already like in terms of the volume of conversions you get.
Tris Dyer (34:56.118)
Gotcha.
Tris Dyer (35:08.79)
Gotcha.
Sebastian (35:21.852)
little bit better even than 25 plus audiences or like 18 plus because of the quality. Exactly. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (35:25.59)
Yeah. Well, those people are spending more time there. They're spending more time there. It's more quickly. These people have a little bit more money because they're a little bit more grown up, but they haven't grown up too much that they're not going to buy it. So that kind of fits in that perfect buying territory that we're looking for those expenses. Is it more expensive than the CPM? Is it, you know, do we find it more difficult to target those people? How does it work out?
Sebastian (35:34.276)
Yeah. Yeah.
Sebastian (35:46.332)
No, I would say it's so, or do you mean sorry, the question 25 plus or 21 plus? What do you mean? Yeah.
Tris Dyer (35:52.63)
Oh, 21 plus, is that or is it gonna be more expensive for you to target?
Sebastian (35:56.156)
No, I wouldn't say it's pretty, pretty similar when I look into, into the accounts. So CPM is same range. Um, just also higher CTR because you get a little bit of the younger audience there and, um, in general, better performance. So, um, some, some, some accounts, I would say that it's worth it to target 18 plus as well. So we have one client that sells a, um, car adapter, which you can put in your car. You can scan your car for health repair stuff.
Tris Dyer (36:11.286)
Yeah, nice one.
Sebastian (36:24.508)
So it's an app and then thing you can order and They are for example the premium audiences didn't work at all because the 18 plus people can already like afford this kind of thing it's not that expensive and I Think they're that it's a different thing like when you go into higher a V's and then I think it makes more sense to target like 25 plus or 20 21 plus
Tris Dyer (36:36.694)
Hmm.
Tris Dyer (36:47.99)
Get you, get you. I like that. That's such a smart way of doing it. So excluding and including audiences to try and find the people who are going to be the best for you in converting. Yeah.
Sebastian (36:53.38)
Yes.
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (36:59.14)
So, tell me, so I always, there's always something that, you know, us as agency owners, I wish we could tell brand owners, but I also like my job. And so what is something that you wish you could tell a brand owner or that they should know about TikTok or about the performance that maybe it's not so polite for the agency owner to say, but if they hear it on the podcast,
It's more acceptable.
Sebastian (37:31.694)
Nobody watches high polish branding content and enjoys it.
Tris Dyer (37:37.078)
Facts. Absolute facts.
Edwin @ Snappic (37:38.372)
Greetings. Greetings. Greetings.
Sebastian (37:38.716)
Why why would you why would you why would you want I would you want to want to put a TV spot on TikTok if it's not a top view Okay, if it's a top view Okay, go ahead top view is something different. Okay, but like performance content why in the world would you like want to put up like a High polished animation and like the camera angle and it's so much Nobody cares. Yeah, it's and like people are too overprotective for their brands. I get it. Okay?
Edwin @ Snappic (37:47.468)
Yeah. Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (37:56.996)
I'm sorry.
Tris Dyer (38:02.102)
Nobody cares.
Sebastian (38:08.508)
I get it from a brand owner perspective. You're like in love with your brand. That's the best thing, right? Okay. So I understand. Um, but if you like, if your main goal for your agency and you're giving the goal to, okay, I want to hit ROAS X and KPIs and all of that things, you cannot be as restrictive with those kinds of things, especially on a channel like TikTok. You need to be experimental and you need to be. Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (38:32.004)
So how, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you implement that? So I'm sure you've run into it before, but they're always like, you know, there are some brands that maybe they sell purses, right? They sell purses from, and they have a very, they see themselves as competing against an LVMH brand, right? And then, so they see themselves as highly bought And so that's what they want to put out. And so how do you get them, you know, saying what you said to do the right thing on TikTok, to do what they should be doing on TikTok?
Sebastian (39:00.732)
Yeah. So one thing that I would see as a.
pretty efficient way of doing it without hurting your brand is a passion pages, right? You can just like fan pages on Tiktok. You can create custom identities on Tiktok very easily. Like it's easier than a Facebook creating a Facebook page. You just have to create custom identity, best purses for women, whatever, put something in. And then you have like somebody in a third party kind of way promoting it. Okay. So like a influencer or something, and then it's not associated with your brand. Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (39:26.788)
Okay.
Tris Dyer (39:32.406)
Nice. It's like a fake page.
Sebastian (39:36.494)
It's not associated with your brand and say ambassador or whatever. Um, this has been done in Meta numerous times, but on TikTok it's way more easy, way easier actually. And, uh, pretty, pretty, uh, a good approach to move away the light from your brand to not something associated with you, but you can still, you know, ride the TikTok train with content that is way more, you know, optimized towards performance and not as.
Tris Dyer (39:38.838)
home.
Sebastian (40:05.724)
glossy kind of brand footage. And that's my way to ease, in my opinion, the easiest way to use that content, because why should anyone in the company say something against that? Because it's not associated with your brand. It's just somebody advertising for you. And, you know, it's not you representing the video in that sense. It's just directing to your page. So I think that's the, that's the easiest way to test it out in the beginning. If you're not willing to go down that.
Edwin @ Snappic (40:24.866)
Yeah.
Sebastian (40:32.764)
Risk, there is no risk, but okay, so like the emotional kind of baggage that the people carry. So yeah, that would be one way I would do it. Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (40:34.052)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (40:43.542)
Interesting, interesting. And so when it comes to actually getting the content, you're saying you're seeding it out to people. You do the shoots yourself and you have a structure and a category of how they're gonna work in terms of bringing UGC, because UGC is huge. Obviously on TikTok we're seeing an awful lot of it. Even UGC agencies coming out and saying, hey, we can source all of these people to talk about your brand. How do you do it? Is there a way of, because that's been a big growth for a lot of our clients that they're
hiring people to, not just for TikTok, but for Meta as well. They're hiring people to talk about this for our YouTube videos, for our Meta ads, for all of this stuff. They're talking, getting people in. Is Is Is there an algorithm or is there a way that you found to processize the process, process, whatever. Yeah, yeah, exactly. To basically make it a lot easier for brands who, if we wanna scale to two, three, four, five grand, that we can find that level of content through UGC.
Sebastian (41:41.82)
Yes. So, um, I think it makes sense for any brands doing any kind of advertising online to have someone in -house, you know, because like we, we, as an agency, of course we want to have the client as long as we can with them or be with them as long as we can. But in terms of a brand owner perspective, owning the content yourself is the biggest thing you can do to be independent because agencies, there will be UGC agencies that.
Tris Dyer (41:50.402)
Boom.
Sebastian (42:09.788)
Content will just not perform or be like half assed basically and not like there won't be a.
It doesn't need to be pretty, but it needs to be performing and there's a lot of content agencies that I see also on the horizon, especially in Germany. They're just mass producing UGC. I said 200 videos a month. Yes, of course. But that means we, when we do those videos for a big, big client, we need to make sure these videos are also performing or at least a good percentage of the videos are performing. If we have like only the same kind of things for any client looks exactly the same.
not necessarily going to be that efficient as when you like try to be a specialized UGC agency. So I would say, first of all, let's say you made up your mind, you want to do TikTok and you also want to be creative and let go go in two directions you haven't taken before maybe. Then.
Of course, first of all, it makes sense to work with UGC agencies, but if you're able to afford somebody who is like a creator manager or like content manager.
This person can basically be the, um, the one who sources the creators and works with them maybe directly because, um, you don't have necessarily have to work with an agency because they are doing the same thing. Right. So you can build your own network, your own UGC network yourself. If you have somebody who knows what to look for, who can also like a bargain a little bit with them because you know, somebody, someone a lot of money for a short video, which is not, um,
Sebastian (43:46.332)
So there's, I would say a limit for a UGC video, which should not be exceeded. And if you 200, 200, 300 max, max, I wouldn't pay more. Like influencers is something different. Influences is something different, of course. But then you also have like a spark ad, you have like a link, you have an organic video, something different. But like for a regular performance video, how, how should a brand be able to afford?
Tris Dyer (43:51.254)
Yeah, what's that number? What's that number? How much should you say would you be the max you pay for you?
Edwin @ Snappic (43:58.404)
Okay. I agree.
Tris Dyer (43:58.486)
Right.
Sebastian (44:15.516)
500 bucks per video at scale. That's just too expensive. It's just, it's not going to work. Yeah. But of course you can also not be like at 50 or like 20 because then the content will not be, you know, there will, there will be some kind of, you know, sweet spot you need to hit. Um, but if you're able to, you know, get like three people consistently doing content for you without any agency, you know, with.
Tris Dyer (44:18.806)
Yeah, not gonna work.
Edwin @ Snappic (44:21.508)
Yeah.
Sebastian (44:42.236)
with, um, let's say like basic kind of approaches. You have a Q&A video, you have a green screen, you have a POV, you have like these different kinds of types of videos you can do, which is easily done. Not a lot of hard work. It's not that big of a deal. And if you have these things, you can consistently, you know, get content from your own company, from your own content production house. And then you can still like work with agencies, you know, and send a briefing there and do that. But, um, I think.
Tris Dyer (44:42.582)
Mm -hmm.
Sebastian (45:11.58)
It makes sense for anyone to do that. And also like for us as an agency, when we started doing the content ourselves, that's what made us special, especially in the beginning. Now, a lot of agencies are doing it. Of course, like they noticed also we need to do the content ourselves because the media buying itself is not what will like help us stand out. So that's why a lot of people moved also into the UGC agency part. But, um, yeah, I think there needs to be a.
good understanding from a client side to scale what kind of content you want to look out for. Um, and, uh, how, how to basically build it up because then you're also able to distinguish if the content from the agency is actually good or if it's just mediocre. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (45:57.11)
Yeah, yeah, I hear that, I hear that.
Edwin @ Snappic (45:59.396)
And on the agency side, how much are you charging to the client then? So generally, a UGC video use you mentioned shouldn't go beyond 200-300. And so if they do it in -house, that's the number. But then if they're coming to you, they say, look, I don't have time for this. Seb, take care of it. How much on the markup are you hitting them with?
Sebastian (46:24.198)
Basically not that much more actually we're not earning money with UGC in most cases
Maybe a little bit, but our main way of making money is through the fee for the management fee, right? So we sometimes we do UGC only UGC then we all charge more Okay, so we'll because it's a different deal. But if we do the account management as well If I get more content and that program is performing I am also able to you know based on an expert ad spend percentage or so be able to charge more there and that's also the you know, the lever that I have in terms of scaling the account because I am
I'm as confident in the content knowing that if the content works and it's good content, I'm also able to scale the client and not in a short -term window, but more so like a mid or long -term view.
can earn more there as an agency because we are more like scaling together than, you just selling. You just see videos for too much money basically. And then, then they also will, the client will also look way closer if the video has been like priced higher on the performance of the video. Right. And.
That's not my, my goal is not to be measured by one video. It's more, you know, the compounding effect of it, you know, and how much we're doing. And that's why we need to over deliver the beginning. And then you will hit some point after like the first 30 days to 45 days where this kind of content, the amount of content we did some, some way down the line, you will hit some numbers, which will drastically, you know, increase performance. And then the highest scale of creatives.
Sebastian (48:02.812)
will result in you getting paid more maybe the month after like this is basically the attribution in the agency world, right? It takes a little bit, maybe sometimes one month longer until you see the value of what you've done the month before. Yeah. Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (48:07.044)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (48:16.214)
Mm, mm, love that. Absolutely love that. Man, this has been absolutely fantastic. There's so much in this. And for anybody listening, I suppose the question I suppose they would ask is, hey, where do I start? What's the first thing if you can say, go ahead and go and do this right now, what's the first thing that any any brand should go and do to start on TikTok?
Sebastian (48:37.02)
Create a TikTok ad account if you don't have one. Because like, yeah, TikTok ad account, if you have a TikTok ad account, yes, then you have a TikTok ad account, then you should create your first UGC video if you don't have one. Ideally do it yourself, you know, ideally do it yourself. Just try it out, do something, do a green screen video, website, back scroll.
Tris Dyer (48:39.638)
Okay, is that okay there? Yeah, yeah, say they have one.
Tris Dyer (48:50.838)
Yeah.
Sebastian (48:59.868)
Buy this one, do this one, whatever your funnel is, do a green screen video or do a Q &A video. You have FAQs, you have everything on your website. Just take the content and put into a video and then you basically...
Do that kind of content that you know, performs with your audience, also on Meta, you know, or you go into a, um, you know, kind of take this Tiktok is for you if you like, or if you are interested in, or if you ever wanted to try X, Y, Z, you know, some, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Phone phone.
Tris Dyer (49:18.858)
of that.
Tris Dyer (49:30.294)
Yeah, so categorize them, get them to categorize themselves. But it's the phone, use the phone and start just videoing yourself and start using content.
Sebastian (49:37.628)
Don't use any professional equipment. Use a phone. Do it as quick as possible. Make it as ugly in that sense as possible in terms of don't try to be perfect because if you've never done it before, just do it and you will adapt to it. It's basically that way. And you know, it's four years now, like five years now since we've been doing TikTok ads. And it's still, I still can't comprehend that people are not able to just
Edwin @ Snappic (49:40.292)
You
Sebastian (50:07.644)
Put their phone up and do a TikTok. You don't even have to film yourself. You can just like do a POV and show like what you're like your Mac book and like how you're scrolling through your Mac book and oh my goodness, oh my goodness, look at this amazing product. These reviews, it's so, it's not that hard. It's really not that hard. It's really not that hard. No, no.
Tris Dyer (50:08.854)
Pick up the phone. Pick up the phone.
Edwin @ Snappic (50:09.828)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (50:23.798)
Not that difficult, not that difficult. Super, super. Okay, great, okay, so what I'm gonna do now is I'm just gonna do like an outro, thanks very much and everything else. But before I do, just on this, like, you know, we obviously met through Foxwell Founders, you know, we have seen some of the cool stuff you've been putting out. Do you have anything to say about like Foxwell, like is there anything in particular that you like about the community, anything that you kind of find that it's useful for, or is it, what do you use it for most?
Edwin @ Snappic (50:23.94)
Yeah.
Sebastian (50:52.102)
The Foxwell Founders? um, yeah, I think basically what I really like is just everybody sharing their, you know, um, their experiences because in the agency world, you have like on one side, people like being very competitive to each other and don't want to talk to each other. And I think it makes sense, you know, just having a lot of people come together and, uh, yeah, understanding the different approaches because what I said today might not work for anyone else or might not work for everybody else, but maybe there's someone who.
notices some kind of things, takes it to themselves and then applies it to their business and it works. So generally I think everything that Foxwell is doing and the stuff that he's putting out is all has been valuable. It's very, you know, no BS, no, you know, fuss talking around things and it's just applicable stuff. And yeah, and getting to know other people, getting to know you guys from...
Tris Dyer (51:45.398)
Absolutely.
Tris Dyer (51:49.91)
Exactly, yeah.
Sebastian (51:50.574)
across the globe and yeah, that's what I really like.
Tris Dyer (51:54.966)
Amazing, yeah, I've been the same. It's what you said at the start, you can talk openly as an agency or as a client and be like, hey, I don't know what this is. Can you tell me more about it? And yeah, that's really the top for me is there's no judgment, there's no BS. It's just this is what we're feeling, what we're seeing, and everyone kind of has a good chat about it.
Edwin @ Snappic (52:13.796)
So, Seb, what is, so I see you stepping during this podcast. What is, what is, what is your step? So I, I, it's funny because I think the same way. What is your step count goal on the day? Is it 20 ,000?
Sebastian (52:18.396)
Hahaha.
Sebastian (52:27.1)
So I don't have a goal to be honest in mind, but like you can make the math or like I have like around I would say three hours daily calls approximately I would say or two to three hours. Okay, and then I have like a four kilometers an hour.
Tris Dyer (52:41.398)
Wow.
Edwin @ Snappic (52:41.884)
Okay.
Sebastian (52:46.268)
So that's going to be at the end of the day. I also do like in the morning when I do work, I also walk on it. So in general, when you look at everything in terms of kilometers and step counts, I don't know the mile number, sorry for that. But yeah, I think 20, 20 K steps is easy for me. Yeah. At this point. Yeah. I hope for I've saw.
Tris Dyer (53:00.502)
Ha ha.
Tris Dyer (53:04.406)
Jesus, 20K.
Edwin @ Snappic (53:05.06)
you then you are super fit then. Cause like that, cause that's what I do. Yeah. Cause I hit when I'm on like a cut, like when I'm trying to get like beach ready, that's like, that's my step count. Um, yeah.
Sebastian (53:18.908)
Yeah. Yo, well, so, so I started like, like our co -founder, he used to work in Metta. Um, and they had it in 2018 already. They had like a treadmill under their desk and that was like early, like nobody was doing it at that point, right? So, um, I started doing it in 2020 just before COVID hit. And ever, ever since then, I basically have this treadmill. And actually the funnel thing is in our company, when somebody new joins, and they get like a Mac book.
Tris Dyer (53:19.286)
She's, yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (53:38.372)
Okay?
Sebastian (53:48.86)
They'll get maybe an iPhone, whatever. And if they want, they can also get the treadmill, you know, and the desk so they can do their steps. But yeah, I like it. I got so.
Edwin @ Snappic (53:54.724)
You
Tris Dyer (53:55.158)
like that.
You'll have to send me a link to the one you use, because I've always been looking at them. There's so many available. I'm like, oh, I'm, as I said, I'm a big dude. I'm a big dude.
Sebastian (54:02.396)
Yes. So funny that you ask. So funny that you ask because like if I would have started an affiliate business of like treadmills that I sent through emails or like links, I think that would be my main business now because everybody always asks me about a link, about like your affiliate link or something for the treadmill. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (54:21.782)
Absolutely, I love that. I love that. Well, listen, let me just do the wrap up and we'll stop recording then. Hang on a second. So Seb, that's been fantastic. Thanks so much for this. There's so many value bombs in there. I can't even begin to list them, but we talked about where you're getting creative, how you're using creative, how you're scaling. This has been fantastic. So listen, guys, we'll put the link to Seb in the show notes below, but I've been Tris.
Edwin @ Snappic (54:22.052)
Ha ha!
You
Edwin @ Snappic (54:45.508)
I'm Edwin.
Tris Dyer (54:46.998)
Talk to you guys soon. Thanks a mil.
Sebastian (54:48.316)
Thank you guys.