The Shopify Tool You've Likely Been Sleeping On!
Need real-time advice that works? Foxwell Digital Membership has the expert guidance you’ve been looking for.
Edwin and Tristram get together with the host of the Unofficial Shopify Podcast, Kurt Elster, to discuss conversion rate optimization (CRO) and one of the biggest tools most Shopify agencies have been sleeping on (Shop Cash) and its potential benefits for clients.
Kurt then moves into the importance of CRO and the role of landing pages in improving conversion rates. He also shares on how apparel brands can overcoming size and fit obstacles. along with highlighting the value of qualitative data in CRO and discusses the use of AI for generating product descriptions.
Key Takeaways:
How Shop Cash can be a valuable tool for increasing sales and customer engagement in e-commerce.
Why landing pages play a crucial role in conversion rate optimization, especially for targeted advertising campaigns.
How apparel and fashion brands can Overcoming size and fit obstacles to improve customer satisfaction and conversion rates.
Why qualitative data is often more valuable than quantitative data in CRO
How AI can be used to generate effective product descriptions along with optimizing conversion rates.
Why the future of CRO may involve AI-driven ideation, automated testing, and implementation.
To connect with Kurt you can head to his website here.
To learn more and join the Foxwell Founders Community head here.
Full Transcript:
Tris Dyer (00:00.39)
in the room. Okay, cool. How are you doing, Kurt? How are things?
Edwin @ Snappic (00:01.395)
Okay.
Kurt (00:05.011)
Very well, you know, I'm optimistic about the this year feeling good starting off strong
Tris Dyer (00:10.342)
That's good. Good to hear, man. Good to hear. OK, let's get straight into it. Usual podcasty stuff. We're recording everything so you can just if you want to resay something. Absolutely. Go ahead. Right ahead. I'm sure you'll hit it first time, though, of course. Yeah, OK, yeah, I look I just do this standard stuff. Just you know, when you go on a plane, I've been on a million planes. They say the same thing, just to be sure.
Kurt (00:23.124)
I've recorded 500 podcasts, I understand.
Kurt (00:33.466)
I always, I turn to someone who's not acting right, I go, first time on a plane? I've done this twice now, and both times they're like, visibly stunned, and then whatever goofball behavior happening stops. And my wife is like, you're out of your mind.
Tris Dyer (00:37.802)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (00:48.804)
Yeah. You're sounds like I get on with your wife pretty well. Okay, real quick. And we're just gonna ask questions. We're gonna have the intro, the outro and all the rest. We'll go straight into it because you got half an hour. So we want to make sure we get the most of this. Right. Super. Okay, Edwin, do you want to kick us off then?
Edwin @ Snappic (01:01.329)
Yeah. Kurt. Yeah, Kurt, how do you want to be intro'd?
Kurt (01:07.892)
I credit stirred shop by experts it's 2011 best known for hosting the unofficial shop by podcast
Edwin @ Snappic (01:15.207)
Hey guys this is Edwin Edwin. We got Kurt today, the host of The Unofficial Shopify Podcast. He has been a Shopify expert since 2011. Without further ado, let's get into it. Tris, kick us off.
Tris Dyer (01:16.879)
I'm Tris.
Kurt (01:30.19)
Nasty!
Tris Dyer (01:32.934)
For sure. Absolutely cool. And so listen, Kurt, welcome to the podcast and you know, thanks so much for your time. I mean, one of the things that we wanted to talk to you straight off the bat is we want to talk to you a bit more about shop cash. That's something that we've seen a lot of things working really, really well for our clients and we've seen some real killer results. And it's kind of slowed down the last couple of months, but I mean, I'd love to hear more. Have you seen it? Has it been something that's been working for your clients? Tell us a bit more about it.
Kurt (01:57.886)
Alright, I asked several- oh no, my video. Hold on. Let me just fix this. There we go.
Tris Dyer (02:02.306)
No, no, it works. No, that's what I was going to tell you in the intro. It's okay. Keep, I'll start again, but it'll record in the background and then it'll upload itself after. Don't worry about the video.
Kurt (02:10.966)
Oh, and my frame rate is jacked here. What is happening? All right, so, shop cache.
Tris Dyer (02:13.302)
Yeah, no, but it's fine. It's uploading in the background.
Tris Dyer (02:19.274)
Okay, so I'm saying tell me more about ShopCash. How's it going? How's it working for you?
Kurt (02:25.286)
I asked around, you know, we've got the eight figure clients, Shopify plus, and we asked about ShopCash and most of them didn't even know what I was talking about. They're like, what is it? And I kind of had the same reaction. I had to refresh myself and look up ShopCash. And it's because I spend so much time in the online store and like ShopPay and all those features are so layered. So
Tris Dyer (02:34.478)
What?
Tris Dyer (02:47.098)
Mm.
Kurt (02:49.682)
elegantly into it that oftentimes new features get added implemented and are running and I'm none the wiser and so ShopCash when I did look it up and realized oh This is what it is very similar to AppleCash in many ways you know cash back rewards, but it can't leave the shop ecosystem and Those the you know of course everybody loves cash back rewards. It's like a reverse discount. It's better than a discount but those
Those ShopCash campaigns, that's what interests me. That sounds useful.
Tris Dyer (03:22.534)
Hmm
Tris Dyer (03:25.75)
Yeah, for sure. And like this is one of the things we're seeing. So it's one of those very, very basic things you can do back into Shopify. You've got to have Shopify plus. So that's a little caveat, but you do, what we found though is that you can identify the customer, the products that you want to put on offer and people can use that cashback as discounts on your products. But there's some really, really good value there. You can, as an advertiser, you can set yourself a CPA target you want to hit and just go find new customers on that. And we're...
We're seeing some clients of ours that are spending kind of, you know, two, $3,000 a day on this stuff. And it's getting the sales at that level.
Kurt (04:03.402)
What are the typical verticals where it's successful?
Tris Dyer (04:06.65)
So we're seeing it working in fashion, fashionry and kind of accessories is one that's working well for us. I don't know, Edward, any working for you specifically?
Edwin @ Snappic (04:15.589)
be honest, we don't have anybody on it at the moment. And so I actually had to be like her. I had to refresh myself to be honest, like I know a lot, but sometimes it creeps up on you. I'm going to be, I'm going to be 100 of it.
Tris Dyer (04:18.68)
Okay.
Kurt (04:26.766)
There's so many features. There's stuff I miss.
Tris Dyer (04:27.034)
Yeah.
Yeah, down straight, down straight. Okay. Well, I think it would be lovely to hear from anyone who has done ShopCash. I'd love to hear people to write in and just tell us, Hey, look, guys, we've done it, this is what's working and we'll discuss it more in the, in the, in the community for sure. So, okay, let's tell you, if you've been, you've been working with Shopify for years, as you were saying, it's been, it's been, you've been at it for a long time. CRO must be really kind of right up your street. Tell us a bit more about CRO. So one of the things that I'm seeing at the moment, you know,
is people doing a lot more landing page testing, especially when it comes to ads. You can do the best creatives in the world, but you get into the wrong page, it's not really working out. So what are the things you're seeing working in CRO at the moment?
Kurt (05:08.706)
So what you're saying is, when people approach you about CRO, conversion rate optimization, the classic that CRO people always reference is, what button color? All right, at this point, no one's asked me about button color, right? But they do think that CRO is like a magic pixie dust that can just sprinkle some CRO on it, and then the site will be better. And it isn't the case. And to your point, landing pages, like that, if you wanted...
engaging a CRO activity and you are not using landing pages, landing pages are the thing that is going to bump up the conversion rate. But why is it? Well, it's because in a landing page, you're making something that is as laser focused and applicable to the person visiting it. Because they're only getting to the landing page if you sent them there via some link. So you know the context from which they're coming to the site. And as long as the landing page fits into...
Tris Dyer (05:44.215)
Okay.
Kurt (06:05.35)
Exactly that and then extends that like that's why landing pages are so powerful because for once You know exactly what the intent and context of that visitor is and so really like CRO When it's effective when it is valuable is simply but making Shopping experiences as relevant as possible to the person who's there because you're competing against a dwindling attention span, right?
Tris Dyer (06:11.099)
Hmm.
Tris Dyer (06:29.093)
Mmm.
Kurt (06:32.642)
They were scrolling on social media most likely and click through on something to your site you interrupted their doom scrolling and Unless if you lose their interest in any way The back button is your big competitor They're just gonna go back to doom scrolling until they get interrupted again by something interesting But like that's and then hopefully you know maybe after a few recurring rounds of this They'll they'll visit and make a purchase decision on your site, but even on a good site
Tris Dyer (06:32.931)
Mmm.
Tris Dyer (06:58.106)
Stick around. Yeah, yeah.
Kurt (07:01.334)
That happens one in 50 times you get the purchase, right? It's an uphill battle for sure.
Edwin @ Snappic (07:04.945)
Yeah. If you have won 50 times, you are doing something right.
Tris Dyer (07:05.354)
Yeah.
Kurt (07:12.03)
Yeah, yeah, like 2.2% conversion rate, if you're, let's assume like a $50 to $75 average order value, that is an excellent business.
Tris Dyer (07:12.472)
doing well.
Tris Dyer (07:20.062)
Mm. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (07:21.653)
Yeah, I would I would take that any day. So then let's go back to what you're saying. So people, they land on your site. You want to CRO, CROing for a product that is a problem solution product is relatively straightforward. Right. But let's let's.
Kurt (07:39.126)
The easiest. If you solve a painter problem, life gets much easier.
Edwin @ Snappic (07:42.893)
Oh my God, it is the best. That is that is the rocket. But what about fashion and lifestyle brands? Right. You got a lot of SKUs. They're landing on a bunch of things. What do you see most often to help those kind of brands?
Tris Dyer (07:44.67)
Facts.
Kurt (07:58.582)
All right, so fashion and apparel, I mean, that's probably the largest vertical on Shopify, if not the largest. And, you know, the classic, like when Shopify started 15 years ago, it was, you know, a lot of t-shirt sellers. That was like, that was the thing. And so fashion and apparel, a little bit kind of baked into the platform. And so these themes often have features that will assist you. But I think with fashion and apparel, the thing you have to overcome is...
not being able to see the item in person. That's number one. So it's like, all right, how do I absolutely 100% over communicate size and fit and feel and material? And so that's like the biggest CRO win for apparel and fashion is just is overcoming that is over communicating size guides. And so it's like, all right, next to the size picker, I want a size guide link that opens a pop-up that has a table that has recommendations that teaches me how to measure, you know,
Edwin @ Snappic (08:41.67)
Okay.
Edwin @ Snappic (08:49.192)
It's a-
Tris Dyer (08:57.657)
Yeah.
Kurt (08:58.246)
explains what is the difference between a centimeter and an inch like if it there is no level at which you're Over-explaining yourself, and then I really love When it's like okay them. This is the model sizes. This is what the model is wearing yes. Give me a reference point And then even if I'm comfortable
Tris Dyer (09:14.682)
Hmm. What would you use as a reference point? Would you would you say like a like an Abercrombie or a Macy's or what way are you picking there? Let's say as a hoodie. I picked two random brands there, but like two random areas. But like what are you picking?
Kurt (09:28.71)
Well, the reference is, they're gonna show the hoodie on a model, and so they'll be like, Tyler is wearing a size medium and is 5 foot 10. You know, 109 pounds, because he's an Abercrombie model. And so then I go, ah, I know I'm not a medium.
Tris Dyer (09:30.554)
that size, if it's in inches.
Tris Dyer (09:39.231)
Gotcha. Okay.
Tris Dyer (09:43.719)
Yeah, I was going to say, I was going to say, yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (09:45.322)
That is quite skinny. Ha ha ha.
Tris Dyer (09:50.804)
I hear that. That's a good one.
Kurt (09:51.926)
That's what I mean by the reference point. And then the second thing to overcome is, all right, even if I am comfortable with the sizing, what happens when I get it and it doesn't fit? And so then it's like, you really gotta communicate what's the return and exchange policy here.
Edwin @ Snappic (09:58.534)
Okay.
Tris Dyer (10:01.062)
Hmm.
Tris Dyer (10:04.93)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (10:06.053)
And so how are you over communicating? So when you're talking about over communicating that size and that fit, right? What are the most there? There's the tables, of course, but like, I'm not pulling out, like, I'm not pulling out my measuring tape, right? Um, my wife might have it. I don't have it. And so how, what, what
Kurt (10:25.406)
You don't know how big around your chest is?
Edwin @ Snappic (10:28.733)
I actually, I should to be honest, I don't know. 45 inches.
Kurt (10:31.618)
I'm a barrel-chested monster, I'll tell you right now, with 45 inches.
Tris Dyer (10:35.11)
45! Man, that's me working in the gym!
Kurt (10:37.502)
yama freak i look like frankenstein and i walk like him to frankenstein's monster sorry millennials are the generation in which like that that's our entire identity is knowing that frankenstein is the guy not the monster
Edwin @ Snappic (10:43.401)
I love it.
Edwin @ Snappic (10:51.237)
Yeah. So what are you implementing then to over communicate size? And I know there are those apps that, you know, they'll ask you like, what size are you in other brands? But like, what other ways? Tell us more about that.
Tris Dyer (10:52.78)
Yeah.
Kurt (11:06.646)
So the apps can be good, but I don't think you even need to get to interactive size guide unless you have some unusual sizing in a place where there are standard sizes. Like bra sizes, that's a really standardized, there may as well be an ISO standard for bra sizing. And so it's like we did a site where they had...
Edwin @ Snappic (11:30.245)
Yeah.
Kurt (11:32.978)
They use their own sizing and we made a little JavaScript calculator where it's like, what's the regular size? Here you go. Here's your size and So like if you're doing oddball sizing like that use a calculator use an app to try and guide people You're using like blanks for t-shirts where you there's standards to it like you're printing on champion gilded and whatever But no on the site. I don't even think I need to get to an app I think it's I want I want a size guide in multiple places I think one mistake people make is
If a piece of content lives in one spot on the site, I can never show that again. And this is not the case. But then, you know, merchants are also like, no one reads. Like, yeah, well you hit it, so don't be surprised. I want, go on an Amazon listing. It's like size recommendation is in there, size guide will be in there, and then they'll repeat it in the photos. And it'll be like, you know, it'll just repeat size info multiple times. And the reason you can't just do this on your own product detail page.
Tris Dyer (12:12.899)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tris Dyer (12:27.482)
interesting.
Kurt (12:29.962)
And so it's like, I put the size chart as the last photo in the carousel, put the size guide pop-up link, pretty much every theme has that feature implemented now, put it in the description, put it in an accordion tab, right? Just...
Edwin @ Snappic (12:34.832)
Oh.
Tris Dyer (12:37.091)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (12:41.89)
and put it in the photo. Cause actually if you put it in the photo, that's a big one for people using TikTok shops, you can actually start to bring that into the last photo in TikTok shops. Then you got your size guide in there straight off.
Kurt (12:45.111)
Yes.
Oh, smart.
Kurt (12:52.655)
We were, two of three of us were lukewarm on Shop Cash earlier. TikTok Shop, that's the one that I wanted to hate and the integration had its teething issues which they're figuring out. But the actual sales, quite impressive. The brands we have that had maybe even a little bit of a TikTok presence and then started using TikTok Shop have been pleasantly surprised by it.
Edwin @ Snappic (13:00.039)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (13:07.834)
the
Kurt (13:20.854)
So just, yeah, you segwayed to TikTok Shop and I think it's worth a shot if you haven't, if you've been considering it and you're like looking for the sign, this is it.
Tris Dyer (13:24.003)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (13:30.082)
Yeah, this is the one you go and so with the so obviously with CRO and landing pages we talked about earlier on with landing pages, you've got a good opportunity to move stuff around and change it for TikTok Shop You've got your fixed like what in terms of optimization of a landing page or optimizing optimization of a product in a TikTok Shop, what would you recommend then? Is there anything in particular? Cause you know, we talked there just about having the size guide in the photo. That's a big one.
But is there anything else that you can look at TikTok shops and go, oh, we could definitely have this in there. Are you talking problem solution in the description or what are you talking here? What are we thinking?
Kurt (14:03.11)
Oh, I personally have never used TikTok. I have no idea. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (14:05.91)
Okay, okay, fair enough. That makes sense. Okay, right.
Edwin @ Snappic (14:10.029)
What do you do when you go to the bathroom? You- Ha ha
Kurt (14:13.084)
Reddit. I use Reddit.
Tris Dyer (14:14.358)
Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. Okay. So just when you're optimizing then on a site, you've got all this traffic coming to say, for example, a landing page, you've got people, a lot of traffic to your site and you can see all the numbers, you can see how many people have clicked and added a cart and purchased. How much of that do you hold balance versus actual asking the questions after? So qualitative versus quantitative data. How much do you hold stock in the quantitative versus the qualitative?
Kurt (14:43.37)
I have found consistently better results and outcomes from qualitative data. The issue with quantitative data in conversion rate optimization is it is skewed so wildly by quality of traffic. And quality of traffic can change by so many factors completely out of your control. What is the current news cycle? What is consumer sentiment?
Tris Dyer (14:51.886)
Hmm.
Kurt (15:09.31)
If you're in a luxury brand, you could tie your conversion rate to the performance of the stock market. We've done this. It works, depending on what you sell. And so there's just so much that you can't control. And so I've seen people tear their hair out going, my conversion rate is trending down and thinking and just like changing thing after thing on their side out of desperation. When really it's like you...
Tris Dyer (15:32.507)
Hmm.
Kurt (15:36.198)
The news is gas prices are high. Okay, well now suddenly you might see sales go down. It's out of your control. And that's the stuff that like conversion rate and those other KPIs can't account for. And same with quality of traffic. Occasionally the algorithm does weird things. We live and die by these advertising algorithms and sometimes it just isn't your friend on who it sends to your site.
Tris Dyer (15:40.738)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (15:47.598)
Mm-hmm.
Tris Dyer (15:59.142)
Yeah. And so then in that case, then you're asked, you're finding that if you're if you go and ask these people questions, why do you ask them, is it why didn't you convert or is it more of a, you know, why did you? So are you asking the people who did and didn't or which are you looking at?
Edwin @ Snappic (15:59.695)
Yeah.
Kurt (16:16.75)
Good question. All of the above. If I throw everything at you, people get overwhelmed and they won't do anything. So it's like, pick one. My current favorite is just to take all of the reviews for a product. If I have it in a spreadsheet, I could drag and drop it into ChatGPT4.
Tris Dyer (16:19.076)
Ha ha.
Tris Dyer (16:35.096)
Mm-hmm.
Kurt (16:35.202)
and ask it questions I could query about it. And I find that is very helpful. And if I do, you walk through the thinking process with CHPT and then go, hey, write me a product description, do it in the style of an Amazon listing, here's my tone of voice. You'd actually get really good results because now the product description is a mirror of the language that your customers were using in those reviews. Where they were like, this is why I bought it, this was my experience. I mean, what could be more honest than this? But also,
Tris Dyer (16:37.678)
Mm.
Tris Dyer (16:56.655)
Mmm.
Kurt (17:04.162)
there's nothing more effective, right? In conversion rate, copy is the thing that absolutely makes the difference. It's the text that we all claim no one reads. That's the thing that really moves the needle. But to your point, on other questions, an exit intent survey.
Tris Dyer (17:06.118)
That's what you want.
Tris Dyer (17:14.586)
Hmm.
Kurt (17:20.674)
where you just go, hey, if you didn't make a purchase today, why not? That can be helpful. You'll also be ready for just utterly bizarre answers, or people, they just think they're yelling into the void. And they'll just tell it, they're like, yeah, I lost my job, and I'm addicted to drugs, so I don't have any money, and I was just board-chopping. You're like, that was honest, thank you. I've seen some weird stuff in there. It's like, I'm getting a divorce. Okay, I'm sorry.
Edwin @ Snappic (17:29.489)
Super weird. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (17:31.033)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (17:35.131)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (17:38.361)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (17:38.711)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (17:42.23)
Yeah, that's a tough one to optimize for. That's a tough one to optimize for. You know, we're not gonna change that. But what kind of stuff would you normally see then? And this is, again, as to your point that you're on, it's highly dependent on the traffic source and so on. But what would typically be the things you're seeing at the moment from ex intent surveys that would actually move, like and say, oh, we should have changed that. What kind of stuff is there?
Edwin @ Snappic (17:46.64)
Yeah.
Kurt (18:04.606)
It'll be a consistent objection. It's like, well, you don't offer X or like, and oftentimes the case will be like the consistent objection is wrong, but it's not that they're wrong, it's that we've not done a good job of communicating and that's what we discover. I mean, nothing more valuable than talking to people, talking to your customers. But yeah, it's almost always, it's like missing piece of information is like, oh, I wasn't sure if it would fit or if it didn't fit, what would I do? Or...
Tris Dyer (18:14.054)
Mm.
Tris Dyer (18:19.354)
Mmm.
Tris Dyer (18:23.526)
Great. Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (18:24.169)
Wait, so going back.
Tris Dyer (18:31.866)
size guides.
Kurt (18:33.682)
Or often it's a misunderstanding where like they think something that isn't the case and it's just like you just didn't do a good job of showing that.
Tris Dyer (18:39.107)
me again. Gotcha.
Edwin @ Snappic (18:40.937)
So going back, so you said something interesting about chat GPT, right? So product descriptions, taking the reviews. I want to, I want to dig into that. So what walk us through the process. So you, you get the reviews and then tell me what, what prompts are you actually hitting and, and I guess number one, does it work? Have you, have you implemented it and seen the lift?
Kurt (19:03.594)
Yes, and I have we have split test it as well And so like if you really want to test it you could split test the multiple product descriptions and that's where You know that's where the rubber meets the road and not a Chachy piece description has not always won, but in most people's descriptions are pretty soggy. They're pretty limp They're not these are they're moist. Yeah, these are all like vaguely negative adjectives
Edwin @ Snappic (19:06.751)
Okay.
Edwin @ Snappic (19:11.003)
Okay?
Edwin @ Snappic (19:21.977)
Yeah.
Kurt (19:27.946)
Whereas those Amazon-style listings, I like a lot. Those sales letter type listings, I like a lot. And it surveys, people generally prefer reading things written by ChatGPT than what a human wrote, simply because it formats it very nicely. It has good syntax. Sometimes it could be annoying. The ideal one is take what it writes and then humanize it a little bit.
Edwin @ Snappic (19:35.432)
Okay.
Edwin @ Snappic (19:46.876)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (19:56.037)
Yeah.
Kurt (19:57.174)
But no, all right, so you go, it needs guardrails. You've got to give it context, because otherwise it's verbose. It could just ramble like me on any topic. And so in ChatGPT 4, you can just drag and drop the spreadsheet in there. If you give it too much, short-term memory is finite. And so too much is where you get yourself into trouble. So do one product, give it a spreadsheet that is literally just the review text to simplify it.
give it that in a text file spreadsheet and give it the context. You are a conversion copywriter who specializes in e-commerce and then now it knows its role. It's always assigned the role first. You know, I, you know, I, we are, we're consulting with a client and the client is this and they sell this and we're going to help improve the product description on their one product page. But first we're going to look at their customer's reviews. It, it'll understand it when it has the context and those guardrails to work within. And so,
Edwin @ Snappic (20:36.082)
Okay.
Kurt (20:55.314)
Oftentimes, I don't want it to ramble at me. I just say, reply okay if you understand. And I've attached the customer views, send. And if it comes back with okay, perfect, next step. Now, and now I go through it and ask it the same qualitative questions the way you would in a customer interview, except it's now speaking for everyone. And you go, tell me why someone would buy. And it'll give me five reasons, and it'll tell you. I said, now give me quotes. Like give me highlights, give me quotes, give me notable.
Tris Dyer (21:14.63)
Mm.
Kurt (21:24.434)
Reasons that people gave tell me issues people had tell me the objections they had before they bought tell me how they described it You know like those five Questions or so just kind of getting it to think through the process and then alright now write a product description Keep it 500 characters, and if that out if the output looks good then go alright now rewrite this like an Amazon style listing Now add a few key details benefits
Tris Dyer (21:32.366)
I like that.
Kurt (21:53.778)
And then you can also get copywriting formulas like templates go, all right, now write a description, use this outline, and provide it that. Like CopyHackers website has a thing, tons of templates that are free. And so I'll grab those and I'll try several. You know, when you're doing it yourself and working from a template, even then it's time consuming. A chat GPT, it's like, you know, 30 seconds later, ah. And so I could start comparing and I could start mixing and matching. And then through that, you get a pretty good result out of it.
Tris Dyer (22:14.17)
You're ready to go? Yeah.
Tris Dyer (22:20.054)
Yeah, I hear you.
Edwin @ Snappic (22:21.946)
And what is the real life lift that you've seen? So you've done the A-B test, so spill the tea, like what is the actual lift that you've seen?
Kurt (22:30.646)
Alright, the absolute best one we got was 15%. And that was just a t-shirt. And we also added a pull quote to it. Where we led with, like, this one customer had this review that was just like... absolutely insane. It's like, this t-shirt cured my polio, you know, as I was walking out of the hospital, like, what? Just crazy stuff. And it's like, actual review. So, I think that stuff helps. Humor can help.
Edwin @ Snappic (22:34.018)
Okay, that-
Tris Dyer (22:34.078)
Hey, let's taste it. Okay.
Tris Dyer (22:57.354)
Yeah, that's hilarious. On the idea of kind of mad things that AI can do, I mean, look, AI is coming in now, you're looking at the way that Google is starting to be overtaken by the likes of chat GBT and things like that for search engines. Where is a conversion rate optimization going when it comes to AI? Obviously we're bringing in AI, using AI to design product descriptions, but what is the future of CRO? Where do we go with this?
Kurt (23:25.074)
I would love it, and I think like we're, I'm sure multiple people are building this at the moment, but with CRO, the issue, the hardest part is usually the ideation. It's like, here's the site, where do we start? What should we test first? And if I can have the AI look at the site and ask me a few questions so it has the context, and then go, here's suggestions, or because it's getting better at vision, it's getting better at understanding what it's looking at.
Tris Dyer (23:35.803)
Hmm.
Kurt (23:54.654)
If it could go through the site and go, here's where we think you're, and then, you know, it has all this knowledge. So it could go through and go, all right, here's where we think you're deficient. So these are the recommendations, and then this is what you should test. I mean, if it could even do that, or it could kind of do a automated audit, that would be really impressive, that I would be thrilled with. And then if you got that far, okay, can it implement and run the tests on its own?
Tris Dyer (24:14.446)
Yeah, that's the next step.
Edwin @ Snappic (24:22.409)
Whoa.
Kurt (24:25.226)
And it would like, the most recent models, in the past they've not been good at math. The most recent models getting better at math. And so like maybe it could get to statistical significance on its own, understand that. And then like, all right, here's the best one, pick the winner next. And then obviously before it implements any test, like, okay, let me review it first. Like I'm not giving the put this thing on autopilot. It's like, yeah, we caught all the prices in half and it like conversion rate went way up. No, no, don't do that.
Tris Dyer (24:41.358)
You will give it okay. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (24:48.414)
Conversion rate way up. Funny that. Yeah. I hear you. I hear you. Well, listen, thanks Emil for that, Kurt. I mean, there's so many value bombs in there that I think a lot of people will take a lot from this episode. So thank you so much. So what we normally do now is you just say, listen, we want to kind of hear about what, like from your side, like when it comes to the Foxwell Founders group and community, I'd love to hear, but like, how do you find it? Like, is there something that you're, you know,
Like, what does it do for you in terms of your role and what you've done?
Kurt (25:24.643)
Oh, the thing I like about the Foxwell Founders Group is in a private room of real operators of people doing the work. The thing I don't always go to conferences and when I don't, the thing I miss is the conversations in the hallway. I don't care about the presentations. It's that chat, that talk.
you know, the real experience is you're hearing from people doing the work in the halls. And groups like Foxwell Founders, those Slack groups, those private communities, that's where I have been able to recreate that without having to leave my house because I'm a shut-in. And so it really fulfills a wonderful professional networking need for me.
Tris Dyer (25:54.619)
Hmm
Tris Dyer (26:07.202)
I hear that. I hear that. That's exactly why we're using it too. So absolutely love it. And it's got to meet you. So that's even better, right? Plus, plus, plus. Well, listen, we're gonna... Yeah, absolutely enjoyed it, mate. I'm just conscious you're half past shut off. So what we'll do is we're just gonna do, we do like an outro where we go, listen, this is all we had time for. Thanks, Emile. Andreas, I'm out of here. Just smile. Oh, say your name when after Edwin, right?
Kurt (26:15.83)
Yeah, thanks for having me. This was fun.
Tris Dyer (26:32.898)
So that's all folks. Thanks so much for having for spending time with us here. Kurt's been dropping some absolute value bombs. If you have any questions, please reach out in the community and I've been Tris.
Edwin @ Snappic (26:43.536)
I'm Edwin.
Kurt (26:44.877)
I'm Kurt.
Tris Dyer (26:45.23)
I'll talk to you guys next time. Thanks a mil.