How Google's Performance Max Really Works
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In this conversation, Collin Slattery, owner of Taikun Digital explains the differences between Facebook and Google and how each is King when it comes to its specific use case when it comes to customer acquisition.
Collin emphasizes the importance of optimizing product feeds for Google and the potential of non-branded search ads for e-commerce. He shares insights on scaling landing pages, leveraging YouTube Shorts for advertising, and the impact of AI on Google Search. Collin wraps up the conversation discussing agency management with Tristram and Edwin and how he's achieving healthy margins in his agency.
Key Takeaways:
Why Facebook is great for demand generation, while Google is better for demand capture.
How optimizing product feeds is crucial for success on Google.
How YouTube Shorts can be a game changer for advertisers, especially when leveraging existing creative.
Why AI poses an existential threat to Google's search business.
How to effectively achieve healthy margins in your agency through effective management and optimization.
Choosing the right billing model and why it should align with both the agency's and the client's goals.
How processes and automations play a crucial role in agency management, allowing for scalability and efficiency.
Why tracking time and profitability is essential for understanding the agency's financial health.
To learn more about Collin Slattery check him and his team out here.
If you'd like to learn more about the Founders Community or want to become a member you can do so here.
Full Transcript:
Tris Dyer (00:00.163)
cut a lot of it out, so.
Collin Slattery (00:01.075)
Sure.
Edwin @ Snappic (00:01.976)
And so, so your agency, I don't want to mess up the pronunciation. Ta -Tay -Tycoon.
Collin Slattery (00:09.235)
It's tycoon. So just like English for business tycoon. There's a whole long story behind that if you want to go into that one too.
Edwin @ Snappic (00:13.528)
Okay, tycoon and then...
Tris Dyer (00:17.443)
Maybe another day over a pint.
Edwin @ Snappic (00:17.592)
And then...
Collin Slattery (00:21.011)
Heheheheh
Edwin @ Snappic (00:22.424)
And then your last name, Slattery. Yes? All right, cool.
Collin Slattery (00:25.627)
Yep, you got it.
Tris Dyer (00:27.395)
My first girlfriend's second name.
Collin Slattery (00:30.323)
It's a common Irish name.
Tris Dyer (00:31.939)
Yes, sir. Are you Irish? No.
Collin Slattery (00:34.003)
Yeah. Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (00:35.608)
Um, okay. Uh, w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w
Tris Dyer (00:36.931)
Game changing.
Tris Dyer (00:43.523)
That's okay.
Tris Dyer (00:47.235)
Yeah, and well, we should just say welcome guys, because Andrew already recorded the intro, remember? Yeah, just go, yeah, just roll straight into it. And yeah, well, just I think I think I always say as well, I mean, I know you probably don't have you got podcasts, but say whatever you want. If you want to start a sentence again, just put your hand up or something and then start it again as if nothing happened. And Nina will cut it out. All right.
Edwin @ Snappic (00:55.434)
Oh, yeah, okay, cool. Cool. So I just roll into it. Okay, cool.
Collin Slattery (01:12.755)
Right. Uh, oh, one final - ah. How's swearing on this one? I can try to keep it to a minimum, but I have a very foul mouth, so...
Edwin @ Snappic (01:14.104)
All right. I'm good. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (01:20.707)
As much as you fucking want. Give it a fucking go, Carly, and see what happens. We can beep it out if anyone gets annoyed. So be you, be you, be as real as possible. Okay, go for it.
Edwin @ Snappic (01:27.768)
Give it a go.
Collin Slattery (01:27.859)
Fucking great.
Edwin @ Snappic (01:31.224)
Okay.
Collin Slattery (01:35.091)
Wow.
Edwin @ Snappic (01:35.256)
Okay. All right. Guys, we got a banger for you today. We have Colin Slattery from Tycoon Agency. I wanted to gatekeep him from you guys. Colin, for those of you that don't know, is one of the best multiplatform people I have ever met. He is one of the few gems, he is one of the few people that is good at both Facebook and Google and is the real deal. Colin.
Welcome to the pod Triss, kick us off!
Collin Slattery (02:07.027)
Thanks for having me guys.
Tris Dyer (02:07.203)
Nice one. No, you're welcome. You're welcome. Tell me first, starting straight into that. So you're one of the main guys that talks, you know, meta and Google. How do you see these two interacting with each other, you know, for a brand? And, you know, how do you scale a brand with the two of those together?
Collin Slattery (02:23.633)
Ah, great question. They obviously play different roles, right? So, you know, Facebook is great on the demand gen side and Google really demand capture. Although Google obviously trying to get into the demand gen as well with YouTube and scaling up YouTube. But they can both obviously play a role, right? I think especially for products that are more visual.
Meta is gonna do really well like beauty can struggle on Google because you don't have that Visual component to it, right? Things that are much easier to understand can do much better on Google than than meta so, you know, I think it's part of I think each
Brands can benefit from both but I think certain types of brands are gonna do better on Specific platforms, right if you need a lot of visual Facebook is great. If you don't Google is gonna be really great Yeah
Tris Dyer (03:30.499)
So if we're talking to parallel brands, say for example, straight out of the gate, they require a lot of visual to kind of have a convincing.
Collin Slattery (03:36.945)
Um, so that really depends right? I mean if it's basic apparel, I don't think so, right? So stuff that people expect and they know what it is I don't think it needs a lot of explanation But if you're like a special tech clothing, right where you really need to explain like the benefits of it Then I think you're definitely gonna need it. But if you're like, hey, I'm just selling t -shirts, right? Like your product feed is probably okay
Tris Dyer (03:46.115)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (03:53.923)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (03:58.979)
I hear ya.
It's going to be enough. And so you find when you're working with both Meta and Google, you're going to really focus on the feed. You mentioned the feed products there. So it's mainly kind of PMAX and any kind of feed ads, top of funnel or DPAs generally. Would you put much credence outside of those two?
Collin Slattery (04:21.819)
Yeah, I mean, feeds are good. Feed product, like product feeds are going to be huge, right? You know, especially the marked up ones on on Facebook. I think we've all all seen and Edwin, I think, feed king here. So maybe I shouldn't be really speaking too much about the feed stuff and defer to the expert. But yeah, I mean, that's a big part of it, especially if you have a large enough SKU catalog. Right. I think on Google in particular, that is.
Tris Dyer (04:26.915)
Mm.
Tris Dyer (04:33.315)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (04:35.128)
Ha ha.
Collin Slattery (04:50.799)
incredibly important because the more SKUs you have the more like search real estate you can take up because you're not targeting with like shopping ads right or PMAX feed ads right Google's just pulling all that from the information that's in the feed so bigger feed tends to be better.
Tris Dyer (04:52.481)
Mm -hmm.
Tris Dyer (05:10.371)
Hmm.
And when you're optimizing the feed, then it's the standard kind of stuff. It's optimizing the description, the titles, and you're using something. You're not just optimizing the titles in Shopify. You're bringing those across, right?
Collin Slattery (05:24.499)
Yeah, I mean we use software to do that, but yeah, I mean categories, right? Those things, obviously titles, descriptions, et cetera. Yeah, although you did also say, and I didn't want to ignore it, is there opportunity in other stuff? And the answer to that is yes.
Tris Dyer (05:27.587)
Hmm.
Tris Dyer (05:32.355)
Yeah.
Making sure you have those all right.
Tris Dyer (05:45.699)
Okay, go on, spill the tea, spill the tea.
Edwin @ Snappic (05:46.232)
Tell us more. Spill the tea.
Collin Slattery (05:50.019)
We want to do the Google side so people kind of poo poo search And like oh don't think search can work for ecommerce and that's just blatantly untrue It can be better than than shopping like it really can Oh, yeah, absolutely
Edwin @ Snappic (05:56.278)
Yeah?
Edwin @ Snappic (06:03.256)
Okay.
Tris Dyer (06:03.361)
Hmm.
Edwin @ Snappic (06:10.486)
Oh.
Tris Dyer (06:11.329)
Nom Brown Search.
Tell us more. Tell us more. Open up that chest.
Edwin @ Snappic (06:14.392)
Wait, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Give us an example. Give us an example here.
Collin Slattery (06:19.065)
So We work with a company that does like replacement car parts very unsexy Huge feed like tens of thousands of skews. So the feeds do really well But non -brand search does also incredibly well like make plus model plus products It it doesn't get the same level inventory and that's one of the big things that I think is important to
Edwin @ Snappic (06:24.984)
Okay. Okay. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (06:40.579)
Okay.
Collin Slattery (06:48.851)
think about if you want to do non -brand search for e -commerce is seeing what percentage of the inventory is available for search ads. Because a lot of the time search will just not show up against the queries because they're prioritizing shopping above search.
Tris Dyer (06:51.811)
Hmm.
Edwin @ Snappic (06:59.244)
Okay.
Tris Dyer (07:08.483)
So the top of the serp is is is discover is shopping and all the discovery at the top and then it's just pushed right down and even on your phone is like further down
Collin Slattery (07:17.989)
Yeah, and it does vary based on category, right? So, ideally it's gonna have a good coverage of search ads, otherwise you're like, oh, this has 200 ,000 searches a month, but like, the inventory for actual search ads is like basically nothing, and you're like, all right, I wasted all this time making it for no reason. But, uh...
Yeah, non -branded search ads can do great free commerce. You really have to have landing pages. It doesn't work with PDPs. That's the one, I think, big wrinkle is that if you are just sending them to the PDP, it's not gonna work, even if they're great.
Tris Dyer (07:43.747)
Interesting.
Edwin @ Snappic (07:44.92)
Oh.
Tris Dyer (07:51.875)
And why is that? Tell us more about that. Is it cold traffic? Is it conversion rate? What are you looking for there?
Collin Slattery (07:57.459)
So usually there's modifiers to whatever people are searching for for like best replacement wiper blades for X, right? And you need this agreement between the query and what's on the landing page in order to, in order to get a high conversion rate to.
Edwin @ Snappic (08:06.328)
Mm -hmm.
Tris Dyer (08:06.529)
Hmm. Hmm.
Tris Dyer (08:20.801)
Okay.
Collin Slattery (08:22.309)
make money. Like the clicks on search are generally going to be more expensive than the shopping clicks. And so you really need that boosted conversion rate in order to have the economics work. You know.
Tris Dyer (08:31.651)
Yeah, that makes sense. Makes a ton of sense.
Collin Slattery (08:33.969)
and lots of little details. So it can be like color plus whatever or like best X for problem, right? And then you're like, all right, this is, you the best shoes for like low arches or something. And your product page is probably not going to have that angle specifically. So the landing page really needs to, to get the conversion rate up.
Tris Dyer (08:49.219)
Yeah, but it'll show it on the landing page, yeah. And so then when you've got the landing page, are you, say for example, you mentioned a color plus whatever, say it's a color plus bumper, we'll call it. Are you then going red, blue, green, we'll say, are you going three different landing pages for those three queries, or three kind of search terms?
Collin Slattery (09:10.513)
Yeah, so I mean you group the search terms together, but it's like it's easy duplication But it is it is effort like which is why you need to make sure the volumes there or it's just It's not worth it
Tris Dyer (09:15.235)
Yeah, yeah.
Tris Dyer (09:19.809)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (09:23.267)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (09:23.288)
Wait, wait, why would you do that? Why wouldn't you just pass the search, like the search query into the URL params and then have the landing page pull the URL params and then adjust the idle accordingly? Yeah.
Collin Slattery (09:36.805)
I mean, you can do that. And like dynamic keyword insertion is also a thing that you can do. Some platforms offer that. I'm not the web developer here in terms of passing parameters. And I think a lot of clients has probably a little beyond their technical capacity too. But yeah, if you can pass parameters dynamically, that's the ideal.
Tris Dyer (09:40.035)
Getting nerdy.
Edwin @ Snappic (09:44.842)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (09:49.619)
Thank you.
Edwin @ Snappic (09:49.752)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.
Tris Dyer (09:56.643)
True, true, true.
Edwin @ Snappic (09:56.812)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (10:02.819)
Hmm.
Collin Slattery (10:03.635)
And it works for like gender too. So right, if you're doing weight loss and like it's men searching versus women searching, you could pass that parameter dynamically and it'll update the images. So it features men or women. Like if you're good with that, it makes all of this a lot easier.
Edwin @ Snappic (10:06.2)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (10:08.033)
Mm.
Tris Dyer (10:15.939)
Mmm.
Tris Dyer (10:19.715)
Yeah, yeah. And so, but if you're not good at that and for the 95 % of people going to be listening or watching, well, what we're saying here is you have a landing page for each of those. And so you must be building landing pages, I suppose, at scale. You're talking, you know, five, 10, 15 landing pages a week, possibly.
Collin Slattery (10:36.467)
Oh, there's tons and tons and tons of landing pages. Yeah. They're usually pretty easy to make. And it helps to have more. The more specialized they are, the better in the sense that like the URL, it's helpful to be able to update that too. Like if you can have the keyword in the URL, that's beneficial. Obviously the dynamic structure is the easiest to set up, but you know,
Tris Dyer (10:39.395)
Okay, okay.
Tris Dyer (10:56.995)
Mmm.
Tris Dyer (11:03.043)
Nice.
Collin Slattery (11:04.591)
especially if they're high volume, high priority search terms, having a fully custom landing page can.
Tris Dyer (11:11.043)
you're gonna be getting a better quality score, you're get a better conversion rate, everything sounds like it's gonna be going up for you.
Collin Slattery (11:16.083)
Yeah. Yep.
Edwin @ Snappic (11:17.304)
And so for your feed, so you're you're you have the description, you're customizing the description, right? So let's let's say it's for an apparel brand. Well, what is what is the general formula that you're using? Is it like gender, color, product, title, brand? Like, what is the general recipe that you're using on that? Or does it does it not? Is that overemphasized?
Collin Slattery (11:40.177)
Um, so I think the description is less important than the title. I mean We're truthfully we're trying to keyword stuff the shit out of it To try and get like how people are searching for and surfacing products To get that into the title like the title super truncated anyway So like you can have a lot of additional stuff on that title that can come in through the the searches
Edwin @ Snappic (11:45.002)
Oh, right, the metal.
Oh, okay.
Tris Dyer (11:50.883)
like that.
Tris Dyer (11:55.555)
Mm -hmm.
Edwin @ Snappic (12:03.222)
Okay.
Collin Slattery (12:07.251)
Because that's the only way that people know, like that's the only way Google knows to surface your products. It'll look at category too, right? But you stuff that description with as much relevant query content as you possibly can because you just want more volume. But you can't even see the description really, except in, I think, a handful of placements.
Tris Dyer (12:12.227)
Your query, yeah, yeah.
Tris Dyer (12:23.075)
And it still works. It still works.
Tris Dyer (12:28.035)
Mm.
Tris Dyer (12:32.163)
And so with that, like, cause it sounds like that's a very teamu approach. I don't know if you've ever looked at a product on teamu, but it's literally keyword like out this out the ass really. What if we're talking, if we're talking kind of teamu then specifically when it comes and Amazon as well, a lot of the products for some of our brands we see working, do we then see their, their biggest search competitors or Amazon or teamu? Well, how are you finding that at the moment? Is that a real threat for you, for the search industry?
Collin Slattery (12:58.867)
I mean, it's... it makes margins worse, that's for sure. And T -MU's got money to spend, because it was the Super Bowl last night, and they had a lot of money that they lit on fire there. So they have deep pockets, and they're making it hurt.
Tris Dyer (13:06.275)
Mm.
Tris Dyer (13:11.541)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (13:11.64)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (13:16.003)
For sure, for sure.
Tris Dyer (13:20.259)
Yeah, are you finding, you're saying margins are going down, is cost per click and everything going up as a result of these big spenders coming into the market?
Collin Slattery (13:28.819)
Yeah, I mean usually if you see Amazon or Tmoo like starting to show up in your auction insights report It's it's bad news because those CPCs get a real upward pressure
Tris Dyer (13:38.627)
Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I'd say, yeah, you're competing for conversion rate and everything else like that as well. So that must be tough. So just to...
Collin Slattery (13:45.787)
And they'll take a loss too, that's the other thing. Like they don't give a shit about the margin. Like you have to make money, they don't have to make money. They're like, we're losing this money, we don't care. Different economics.
Tris Dyer (13:49.827)
This is it. Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (13:50.648)
Hahaha!
Tris Dyer (13:58.047)
Give me two seconds, guys. Someone's literally just rang my doorbell. Give me two seconds.
Edwin @ Snappic (14:02.776)
Okay. How's Brooklyn at the moment?
Collin Slattery (14:07.155)
It was pretty nice this weekend. We're getting out of we're getting out of the miserable winter so I Don't like I didn't want to be here for winter, but I was so I'm normally not here. Yeah, I'm normally somewhere in South America, so
Edwin @ Snappic (14:09.718)
Yeah?
Edwin @ Snappic (14:13.27)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (14:18.712)
Normally you're in Argentina, no?
Edwin @ Snappic (14:24.736)
Yeah!
Collin Slattery (14:25.587)
Girlfriends back in the office two days a week, unfortunately Which is kind of bullshit. And so I didn't want to leave her behind the whole The whole winter I felt like that was that was a bit of a dick move. It was like love you, sweetie. It's January I'm like, I'll see you in April like Have enjoy the winter by yourself
Edwin @ Snappic (14:28.632)
Yeah
Tris Dyer (14:35.939)
Okay, so it was my Hello Fresh Air.
Edwin @ Snappic (14:42.552)
Hahaha!
Tris Dyer (14:44.151)
Yeah, bye bye. Yeah, I've seen that. Sorry, that was my hello fresh order. I haven't had one in three weeks and they decided right when we're recording was the best time to deliver it. That's perfect. Anyway. Yes, sir. Well, I actually marked Nina.
Edwin @ Snappic (14:46.648)
Hehehe
Collin Slattery (14:51.473)
Hmm.
Collin Slattery (14:55.283)
Hey, that's okay. Just more work for the editor. Who is the editor?
Edwin @ Snappic (14:55.512)
that's that's
Edwin @ Snappic (15:02.12)
Nina. I don't think you've met Nina before. She's on my team. Yeah, but she...
Collin Slattery (15:03.697)
Okay.
Collin Slattery (15:09.627)
Okay.
Tris Dyer (15:11.075)
And she's the best. Hi, Nina. She always loves getting a shout out. OK, let's get back into it. One of the actually sorry, just on that, like on the thread that we're talking about there. It's really interesting, like disruptions in the industry. So you've got a team, you got Amazon. But then what about AI? Because Bard, you know, it was like I think it was a Bard was introduced over the weekend like properly. I think I got an email saying Bard is now Gemini.
Collin Slattery (15:13.747)
What's up, Nina?
Tris Dyer (15:40.387)
Did you guys get the same EWA?
Collin Slattery (15:41.807)
I haven't checked my email. I've been off off the email. So I will see I'll get back to you after this
Edwin @ Snappic (15:43.768)
I have not, so...
Tris Dyer (15:44.291)
Yeah. Okay. Well, but I got an email and I got an email and two of my emails saying Bard is now Gemini, which is obviously, you know, introducing, you know, LLMs into search. Obviously chat GPT being a big thing that people are using now to search for questions they have as opposed to actual sites. So how much do you feel that AI is going to start taking from Google's, you know, share and then how much is actually going to move over to Bing over the next couple of months based on chat GPT?
Collin Slattery (16:12.627)
I don't think any is gonna move over to Bing to be honest with you. I just don't think it's gonna move the needle. I think it is an existential threat for Google search business, like AI generally.
Tris Dyer (16:17.379)
It's unsavable.
Tris Dyer (16:27.777)
Hmm.
Collin Slattery (16:30.535)
And you know, I think the future of Google is YouTube and not search, right? I mean, search is an old technology. It's essentially a digital like white pages or yellow pages, right? Like you're looking for a plumber and instead of opening up a yellow book and going through plumbers and like they're all listed in there, you're searching plumbers near me on a little box and it comes up with the same thing. Um,
Tris Dyer (16:41.675)
I'm
Edwin @ Snappic (16:42.068)
Yeah!
Collin Slattery (16:59.923)
So I think they're probably in trouble over the next 10 years. I would expect that before the end of the decade, YouTube will be a bigger percentage of revenue than search, probably.
Tris Dyer (17:12.867)
Interesting. So talking about YouTube then, is it, you know, since you're doing both social and search, is it a lot like you're taking reels and putting on shorts, or is there specific stuff you're doing on YouTube pre -rolls that are working for you?
Collin Slattery (17:26.673)
Yeah, so the easiest low -hanging fruit if you're running on meta is taking your 9x16s and dropping them into shorts. You do have to hack around a little bit to get the shorts placement Google isn't giving it to you yet as like a standalone placement, but I think that probably will. But yeah, that's kind of the easiest.
Tris Dyer (17:34.221)
Gotcha.
Tris Dyer (17:47.043)
What? What's the hack?
Edwin @ Snappic (17:48.312)
Wait, does it make money? Does it make money? Is YouTube... Oh, it's making money. Like, what kind of money? Because I haven't had a chance to play around with YouTube shorts yet. And so I'm interested in the digits. Like, how much can you spend? What's the return looking like? What does that picture look like?
Collin Slattery (17:51.443)
Yeah, absolutely.
Collin Slattery (18:05.561)
So direct return is so in platform attribution, which does undercount YouTube fairly significantly is about 32 % worse And i'm pulling this out of my memory from when I did the research for my presentation on shorts I think it's 32 worse than non -brand search in platform When you look at it on like a post -purchase attribution, it's pretty much one -to -one with meta
Edwin @ Snappic (18:34.52)
Whoa. Wait, how much can I spend in it? Like, is it scalable?
Tris Dyer (18:37.283)
That's big news.
Collin Slattery (18:39.891)
So, eh, not really. And that's the thing, right? It probably caps out at a few thousand dollars a day. We'll say like three to five grand a day. So it's not nothing, but it's, you're not, you know, you're not going to put 20, 30, 50 ,000 a day into shorts yet anyway. But like a few, few grand at like better efficiency. Yeah, you can do that.
Edwin @ Snappic (18:44.632)
Okay.
Tris Dyer (18:50.851)
Oh, no, that's a lot of beans.
Tris Dyer (18:57.635)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (19:03.619)
Yeah. And is it, what's the thing then that's driving that? Is it like, is it targeting plus creative or is it like where meta is going and is it like more focused mainly around creative and leave it on broad, massive lookalikes and just really focus on getting good creative?
Edwin @ Snappic (19:04.672)
Whoa.
Collin Slattery (19:18.639)
So I'd say it's more the creative on shorts And I think targeting is probably more important for regular YouTube You know, I just like I like to call it YouTube is basically met in 2018, right? When you know, we all we all remember met in 2018, right? Not as smart you got your interest plus your lookalike stack plus your broad audience running in a CBO, right?
Tris Dyer (19:24.001)
Hmm.
Tris Dyer (19:28.513)
Mm -hmm.
Edwin @ Snappic (19:35.128)
Ha ha!
Tris Dyer (19:37.155)
Yes.
Edwin @ Snappic (19:44.448)
Yeah!
Collin Slattery (19:45.971)
And you're like, we're doing audience testing. And that's still something that you do on YouTube. So it's not as smart as meta. So you can do some audience testing, especially on regular YouTube. But creative's big. And usually if something works on TikTok,
Tris Dyer (19:56.163)
nice nice
Collin Slattery (20:04.901)
It's gonna work on shorts, right? And that's pretty much true for for meta video content as well. It's gonna work on but it's gonna work on shorts You don't even really have to change it I mean if you do change it to fit like their sort of overlay, it'll do better but um, you can literally and that's just the easiest thing people like hey, we have all these like great performers on meta you're like Throw them right into shorts. Just like straight drop them in no changes and they usually do pretty well
Tris Dyer (20:06.435)
and the shorts, yeah.
Tris Dyer (20:11.299)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Edwin @ Snappic (20:20.28)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (20:30.151)
Yeah, really broad targeting just chuck it in and see how it goes.
Collin Slattery (20:35.697)
Yeah, I mean like that's the easiest way to start You could throw some audience testing in there I mean they do have pretty good audiences depending on your vertical and you can test a few of those you get like The old the three audience stack test in there try to keep them about the same size, right? you don't want you don't want one of them to be too big compared to the other two and
Tris Dyer (20:57.411)
Same old, the same stuff that you were hearing from Meta for the last five years, same thing's gonna happen here.
Edwin @ Snappic (21:01.816)
Wait, and so how do you sort of shim it? How do you shim in the placement? Like is it, cause you can't just check the box, like serve up on YouTube shorts only. So what is it? Is it like serve it up and then you exclude everything? Like how do you get the placement?
Collin Slattery (21:21.309)
Yeah, so it's you have to set it to mobile only you have to make sure you're using a specific shorts link Because like a YouTube shorts like it's uploaded to short specifically instead of just YouTube. So you have a shorts link
Tris Dyer (21:33.091)
Mm -hmm.
Collin Slattery (21:35.891)
You don't expand the inventory. There's like three or four settings that you have to uncheck in order to make sure that it's going to serve as shorts. And it's not even a guarantee that is shorts only because they're not going to guarantee that. But we do find that it is pretty much almost exclusively shorts and notice a material performance difference between the shorts campaign and just like a standard YouTube pre -roll.
Edwin @ Snappic (22:04.152)
So, materially better, materially worse.
Tris Dyer (22:04.323)
Okay.
Collin Slattery (22:07.883)
materially better on like a conversion focused basis, which I think makes a lot of sense.
Tris Dyer (22:13.667)
Nice, you got some good stuff here. That's some, yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (22:15.672)
This is a gem. Just this is worth listening to the whole gosh darn podcast. I can spend extra $100 ,000 a month? Like that's crazy.
Collin Slattery (22:25.587)
Yeah Yeah, and at like meta efficiency again, like when you factor in like the the post purchase component of it so like meta plus post purchase against YouTube shorts was post purchase basically almost one -to -one pretty close YouTube shorts actually comes out a little bit ahead just a smidge but
Tris Dyer (22:25.827)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (22:43.331)
One to one. Wow. That is...
Edwin @ Snappic (22:44.472)
Wait, so Ken can.
Collin Slattery (22:51.123)
And a pretty big sample size too. I mean, we're talking like tens of thousands of post -purchase surveys in like, the a hundred thousand orders or something. So like pretty big sample size.
Tris Dyer (22:51.651)
enough.
Edwin @ Snappic (23:00.472)
Can we tell, so can you tell the audience what are the things that you have to uncheck? If you have to look it up, I will wait because.
Collin Slattery (23:09.139)
I will pull my presentation for the exact five. I think it's five things. Also, this is a little Foxwell promotion. It was in my presentation for the YouTube conference. So if you're a Foxwell member, get in on that.
Tris Dyer (23:09.443)
Mm -hmm.
Tris Dyer (23:15.971)
This is the new Power Five.
Tris Dyer (23:26.307)
It is. Yeah, it's a great conference. You've to get that.
Edwin @ Snappic (23:26.616)
Oh.
Collin Slattery (23:31.923)
That's right. Yeah, let me pull this up.
Edwin @ Snappic (23:38.136)
That's ma - did you know this Tris? I had a no - fucking idea!
Tris Dyer (23:39.841)
No, hadn't a clue. Hadn't a clue.
Edwin @ Snappic (23:44.856)
I'm gonna go make some money after this podcast. This is crazy.
Collin Slattery (23:44.883)
This is...
Collin Slattery (23:48.915)
Oh yeah.
Collin Slattery (23:52.851)
leveraging your meta assets to scale with you.
Tris Dyer (23:53.699)
This is I love about this podcast like finding out stuff like this is just crazy.
Edwin @ Snappic (23:57.494)
Yeah.
Collin Slattery (23:59.891)
So actually it's significantly better. It's a 4 .77 versus a 4 .32 against like lots and lots of spent. That's post purchase.
Tris Dyer (24:11.363)
Lots and lots, as in like a real specific number. Nice.
Collin Slattery (24:14.715)
Hundreds of thousands of dollars. I mean this was 14 ,000 I got to look at my speaker notes to 14 ,000 survey responses against 50 ,000 purchases So that's a pretty significant sample size. Yeah
Edwin @ Snappic (24:29.908)
Whoa. This is...
Tris Dyer (24:32.971)
Eastern Stambul size. Yeah.
Collin Slattery (24:54.163)
Yeah. All right. So.
Tris Dyer (24:56.099)
Can you, you can't hear that in the background? Or can you? Oh fuck it. Okay.
Collin Slattery (24:58.067)
I can hear it a little bit.
Edwin @ Snappic (24:58.104)
I could hear it a little bit.
Edwin @ Snappic (25:07.8)
Uh, uh, I.
Tris Dyer (25:08.483)
You got to say, go on. I know, go on. I'm just going to mute myself while this guy cuts this rope. So we'll go back in the room now and then I'll just mark it.
Collin Slattery (25:11.411)
Okay.
Collin Slattery (25:15.539)
All right, you want to throw the question. Oh, sorry.
Edwin @ Snappic (25:17.624)
Yeah, so tell us, so tell me, I'm dying to hear. So what are these things that got it unchecked so I get YouTube short only placement? Tell me.
Collin Slattery (25:29.171)
Yeah, so first you got to make sure it's uploaded to shorts and that means it's going to have the shorts like in the URL itself. If you don't see shorts in URL, you upload it to regular YouTube and that's not going to work. You need to make sure video enhancements are off and then you set the placement to mobile only. And those are the three big keys to make sure that it's going to be running as shorts.
Edwin @ Snappic (25:33.528)
Okay.
Edwin @ Snappic (25:46.68)
Okay?
Edwin @ Snappic (25:51.224)
Ah.
Edwin @ Snappic (25:58.008)
Guys, Colin just gave us the recipe. We could squeeze out another 3 -5k a day with this. This is the recipe.
Tris Dyer (26:01.475)
Yes.
And one to one level of performance. I think that's the thing. If you've got the creative, you've got another place to put it that you'll get some good performance.
Edwin @ Snappic (26:11.87)
No, Tris, it's not one -to -one. Colin did post -purchase on over 50 ,000 purchases and we got more return off of YouTube short than meta.
Collin Slattery (26:23.763)
4 .77 vs 4 .32 was a big sample size too.
Edwin @ Snappic (26:29.752)
That's bro. We make our money off meta YouTube shorts is beating meta. What the heck? I'm here for it. Wait, so OK, so we just got a gem Colin. I'm going to dip into something else that I think a lot of people also they don't know about you. We got to know it because we talked. So you're good at Google, you're good at Facebook, but you're also good about your money and how you run your agency.
Tris Dyer (26:35.267)
I'm here for it. I'm here for it. I'm here for it. I'm here for it.
Collin Slattery (26:35.379)
It's really good.
Edwin @ Snappic (26:58.712)
because you have one of the best margins I have ever heard on an agency. And so if you don't mind sharing, can you tell us what it is and tell us what are the keys? How do we get such healthy margins off the business?
Collin Slattery (27:13.843)
Oh, you want my actual margins?
Edwin @ Snappic (27:16.376)
Or we could skip that part.
Collin Slattery (27:19.155)
I mean I'm comfortably north of 40 % so it's pretty good and that's counting my salary in there as well like that's counting my comp so that's post my comp I should say.
Tris Dyer (27:22.243)
Wow, wow, that's decent for an agency. That's fantastic.
Edwin @ Snappic (27:28.152)
That's incredible.
Tris Dyer (27:34.307)
That's good going. That's good going. That's good going. How do you do it? What's the secret? I mean, the secret. But like tell us a bit of what, how do you have it set up? Is it a pod system or what do you have? How do you have it going?
Collin Slattery (27:44.979)
So we do use a pod system. I think for us, the key is that we essentially have a split talent pool. So we have very well compensated, like high performing people in...
Edwin @ Snappic (27:52.888)
Okay.
Collin Slattery (28:01.297)
the U .S. and then we get like incredibly high performing talent in Latin America where just like labor costs are 70 or 80 percent lower. Like I can hire a truly elite designer in like Mexico for 25 to 30 percent of the cost of the U .S. for like mid -level talent in the U .S. versus you know someone who's like elite in Mexico.
Tris Dyer (28:28.323)
Yeah. Smile.
Collin Slattery (28:29.519)
And so, you know, that significant, because labor is the biggest input of an agency, right? So if you're cutting a large percentage of your labor costs by 70 % and then you have top, top tier talent in the U .S. is just generally going to overperform their compensation.
Tris Dyer (28:42.465)
Hmm.
Collin Slattery (28:52.133)
You know, if you have like two decent people in the US like one great person you pay him 50 % more than one of those decent people is going to cover those two jobs. So that.
Tris Dyer (29:01.539)
Sure, sure. And you don't see any drop in quality by hiring in Latin America. You don't, if you're hiring elsewhere, because we do it, I do it as well. We do it in Eastern Europe. We do it in India. And we don't see any drop in quality. It sounds like you've got the same key.
Collin Slattery (29:15.315)
Yeah, I mean, it's hard. Like the hiring process is hard. I'm glad I'm not the one doing it. That's a director of paid media's job. Because like you have to sift through tons and tons and tons of resumes, like thousands. I mean, that's that's kind of true, though, for even like, you know, domestic jobs, too, right? Like we're about to hire a senior PPC person. It was like 700 resumes to filter down to like three people.
Edwin @ Snappic (29:29.368)
Oh.
Edwin @ Snappic (29:36.6)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (29:43.928)
Whoa, that is great. And so, and so your labor costs are the biggest thing. And so how much of your team are, is US based and then how much of your team is foreign based? Would you say? Okay.
Collin Slattery (29:44.173)
So...
Tris Dyer (29:45.411)
Whoa.
Collin Slattery (29:56.209)
It's about 50 -50. And I think it'll probably actually skew even more Latin America in the future. Like I try to keep a high level strategy. And that's not to say that you can't find that in Latin America or other places in the world. It's also a perception thing, right? Like if you're working with US companies and they are hopping on a call with someone who is in Brazil or...
Tris Dyer (29:59.299)
much.
Tris Dyer (30:04.483)
Okay.
Edwin @ Snappic (30:05.75)
Okay.
Collin Slattery (30:24.219)
Eastern Europe or anything like even if they are absolutely better than anyone you could hire in the US there's going to be a perception issue with the client and I think that's just something that factors in so pretty much client facing and high level strategies in the US and then the rest of it is in Latin America.
Tris Dyer (30:24.707)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (30:44.291)
Nice, nice. And then so then like if you're so you're basing that the workforce is a good place for you to save some money. But then obviously when it comes to charging money, I mean, I've seen all different ways of charging. And this is a big conversation at the moment around how should we be charging? Should we be charging on a fixed fee? Should we be doing percent to spend? Like what's your opinion on all that? Like, cause there's so much conversation going around at the moment around that. And you know, a lot of the people are siding with.
let's go with fixed fee and it fixes that way but then it doesn't align the agency's goals with the company's goals but then people say oh well you're now creaming it off the top when you start to scale it up so what are your thoughts on that?
Collin Slattery (31:25.721)
I mean, I think it depends right, but I also generally agree like Flat fee. I think the brands think they're gonna get a deal and I don't think that's true because agencies are not going to go into losses To keep a project right like we are running businesses we have to make money and if you're scaling up and like the workload increases Either we're gonna do less work. We're going to have
Tris Dyer (31:54.019)
Mm -hmm.
Collin Slattery (31:55.443)
more junior talent, do more of the work to make sure that margins are good or you get fired. Like there's just, we're not going to lose money on you, right? Like we're running businesses as well. And so, you know, I think if you're concerned that your agency is making too much money, like that's.
Tris Dyer (31:58.689)
Mm -hmm.
Edwin @ Snappic (32:05.944)
Yeah. Yeah.
Collin Slattery (32:17.235)
You should be worried they're making too little money and they're like cutting corners on your account to make sure that they hit their margin goals like
Tris Dyer (32:19.779)
Exactly.
Tris Dyer (32:25.699)
This is it. This is it. And the thing is like the question then becomes is like, well, you know, as you're starting to scale, we've seen brands before in the past where we scale them, you know, from, you know, 140 grand spend in a month to one and a half million in a month. And obviously, you know, you're 10Xing your fee then at that stage. But, you know, we started to introduce things like we've teared off our fee, then we introduce new people into it. And it's like the comparison then became, well, can you know, are you sorry, we're not charging them that. That's what was their spend. We're not charging them one and a half a month.
But I mean, what I'm saying is that we add in more people to add in more value. So it's not just us spending more. Yes, we're probably making less margin on it, but it still has to be that level, the money in versus money out. I mean, Edwin, is it something that you've come across and what's changed in the last six months for you in terms of your fees?
Edwin @ Snappic (33:19.256)
In terms of our fees, I think the most noticeable thing is that we've always been flat fee, but we try to just get more services on the ticket for them. And it's not for a selfish reason. It's just the reality at the moment. You need to be multi -platform. You used to be able to go all in on meta. You can't. If you want real genuine growth, you got to be on Google. You got to be on TikTok. But it takes...
a different person to do Google. Like, Colin can do it, but like most people can't. Like, legitimately, Colin was really the first person I met who like literally could play both sides of the field. And so fees go up, but their performance goes up too. And speaking to what Colin's saying, like I fired people before because like I fired clients, not staff, clients, because they didn't want to pay the money. But I was like,
I knew you when you're making 20k, I bumped you into 150k. Like, I don't, I don't see like you haven't you've done even less now. Like, I don't understand what's going on with this speed discussion right now. I don't get it.
Tris Dyer (34:32.483)
It is a good discussion to have because I've seen agencies creaming on the top and it is difficult to kind of, because they have to kind of set it and forget it. It's like it goes up and then they don't do anymore. There is, and especially since COVID, COVID kicked off a bunch of new agencies. I mean, you've got to get those, those actors are kind of there and they're starting to peter out now because things are getting a little bit more difficult. CPMs and CPCs are getting higher.
Edwin @ Snappic (34:49.642)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (34:59.011)
they're going to start blaming the recession, they're starting to blame the... I'll tell you what's the other one I heard, there's an election this year and we're going to start blaming that. CPMs are going up because an election is like, bro, bro. Yeah, if your media agency is quoting iOS 14 to you, run. That's one thing I would say. Look, you mentioned iOS 14, but don't have it as the reason why it's not working.
Edwin @ Snappic (35:07.734)
Oh.
Collin Slattery (35:09.427)
People are still blaming iOS 14, like, four years later.
Tris Dyer (35:24.515)
I think the biggest thing to say just on that fees structure is, you know, we talked about the margins and everything else like that from an agency has to play into the agency's hands as well as the client's hands because if you start to lean too much one side, they're going to just end the contract because it doesn't make sense. So that's really where they're and sounds like you've got that balance right with your clients.
Collin Slattery (35:50.341)
Yeah, I mean different clients have different structures sure um and and one i'm starting to see Come up more and more is like percentage of sales even just for like consistent Um, so it's like it's a lower percentage, but it gives a consistent um
Tris Dyer (35:53.955)
Mm -hmm.
Tris Dyer (36:02.911)
Interesting.
Edwin @ Snappic (36:05.528)
Okay.
Collin Slattery (36:09.331)
percentage of their revenue because like if efficient as you scale up right efficiency generally goes down a little bit and so the agency fee as like a percentage of revenue can go up and so especially if you're scaling very aggressively and getting those lower targets a percentage of revenue just gives like a More consistent number to the brand so they're like, okay, you know it's three and a half percent of sales and it's not gonna go up to four and a half because like we've scaled up and we're accepting a little
Tris Dyer (36:19.543)
Mm -hmm.
Collin Slattery (36:39.285)
lower efficiency number. And so like I see that as something that can be, I guess if you're a savvy brand, like a potential conversation to have, and it can also make like, it could be good for the agency too, right? Cause they're still going to get that upside. But you're not going to run into a situation where, you know, the budget scales like 10 X and the efficiency drops like, you know,
Tris Dyer (36:41.025)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Collin Slattery (37:03.155)
2x or whatever and you got this like percentage of ad spend model that just doubled in size as a percentage of revenue.
Tris Dyer (37:11.875)
And when it comes to discussions like that, how is that different to say, I suppose, equity is your own part of it, whereas this is literally a percent of overall revenue or just revenue generated by meta or platform.
Collin Slattery (37:25.139)
Oh, it's Shopify revenue. Like, literally the whole thing. So...
Tris Dyer (37:27.587)
Okay. Okay. Right. Interesting. It's put your money where your mouth is on both sides.
Collin Slattery (37:34.757)
Yeah, I mean like I haven't done an equity deal. I think that's a whole different layer of challenge I feel like if I'm doing equity, I'll just have all of the equity and it'll be my own brand, right?
Tris Dyer (37:41.699)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (37:42.04)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (37:46.339)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear that. I hear that. One of the things that agencies face, one of the problems agencies face is they've started to scale up, they start to bring in new people, they have a head of department that will be running different things, and they start to hear problems with capacity. And capacity is a big question mark. It's like you've got one guy or girl doing with five clients and they're running perfectly fine and they can't...
keep going, like they're absolutely fine, they're flying it. Where they've got someone over here with two clients and like they're saying they're at capacity, they might be managing a bigger client, but how do you manage capacity in your agency?
Collin Slattery (38:25.459)
you
Edwin @ Snappic (38:25.592)
How many accounts do you have per head to begin with?
Tris Dyer (38:28.993)
Yeah.
Collin Slattery (38:30.707)
So that varies. It's we'll say five to eight is the range that we keep it in. And like, Tris hits it right? Like, you know, if they're much bigger projects, like they're going to take more time, probably not going to have, you know, a full, you know, seven or eight of those as closer to the five mark.
Edwin @ Snappic (38:32.984)
Okay.
Edwin @ Snappic (38:36.952)
Okay, yeah.
Tris Dyer (38:37.057)
Okay.
Tris Dyer (38:47.875)
Mm -hmm.
Collin Slattery (38:55.859)
I definitely don't have this figured out. Like I feel like Edwin has a much bigger team. He's figured out the this part of the business a lot better than than probably I have. You know, and I think if you're the owner to write a lot of it will just like overflow to you. If you're like need to swoop in and you know, work till 11 o 'clock at night one of these days, just get in there and get it done.
Tris Dyer (39:08.611)
Hmm.
Tris Dyer (39:14.339)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (39:20.419)
Yeah, get stuck in, be part of the team, be part of the team. It's always the question, because so many people say, oh, the agency owners are going to drift off into the sunset and sip in my ties on Palm Beach. No, no, I wish, I wish.
Edwin @ Snappic (39:25.112)
And so...
Collin Slattery (39:25.201)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (39:30.648)
No, no, no, no. I'll drink up my time Palm Beach, but I might also have my laptop open at like midnight. So tell me, so you, you've grown, you've grown this agency to this, this wonderful place. Um, and so what would have been the biggest game changers for you when you were going from zero to five on the head count?
Collin Slattery (39:33.331)
I wish!
Collin Slattery (39:41.243)
Yep, exactly.
Tris Dyer (39:41.347)
Yeah. Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (39:56.408)
and when you hit 12 on the head count and then now where you are, like what have been the biggest game changers for you as you grew your agency?
Collin Slattery (40:05.415)
Process like process and automation key So I like our processes are I would say actually maybe a little overengineered like we can probably scale without material changes in process to probably 60 people Like they're very well designed and then anything that can run as an automation run it as an automation like Xavier and integra mat are like
Edwin @ Snappic (40:07.736)
Okay? Anymore? Okay? Which ones?
Edwin @ Snappic (40:21.75)
Whoa.
Collin Slattery (40:32.179)
all through my systems like
Tris Dyer (40:34.819)
Oh, this is where we get, yeah. Tell me more, yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (40:35.16)
Oh, like what are you automating? Like tell me the stuff that you're automating.
Collin Slattery (40:40.531)
So like our sales process is almost completely automated outside of me doing the proposal. So like a lead will come in.
Edwin @ Snappic (40:48.728)
Okay.
Collin Slattery (40:48.787)
It gets kicked into ActiveCampaign, which is what we use. There's like our CRM and email platform. Like they schedule the call in Calendly. It will then update them in ActiveCampaign that they have booked. So they will no longer get the rest of the like initial intro flow, right? It'll create the deal. It will then create an entry in Proposify that we use for Proposify. So their contact information is already in Proposify. We'll have the discovery call.
Edwin @ Snappic (40:51.532)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (41:03.032)
Yeah. Yeah.
Collin Slattery (41:16.915)
That will automatically get updated once the discovery call is over and I've added my notes in active campaign I do have to manually create the proposal and propose if I but that's the final step where I actually have to do anything because once it gets signed it updates the deal in active campaign to closed which will trigger an automation and click up to create a folder based on a template that has like the basic workflows
Edwin @ Snappic (41:23.968)
Okay.
Tris Dyer (41:29.315)
Oh no.
Tris Dyer (41:37.227)
interest.
Collin Slattery (41:45.939)
to onboard that type of client. So if it's like DTC Google only, that'll automatically get created. Work will be assigned based on a delivery role. So everything gets assigned out to everyone automatically too in ClickUp. So like we're probably saving a few hours of time, like just in that one, like automation flow.
Tris Dyer (41:49.571)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (42:01.944)
Oh. Oh, okay.
Tris Dyer (42:02.625)
Hmm.
Nice.
Tris Dyer (42:11.107)
Mm -hmm.
Tris Dyer (42:15.555)
That's amazing. And so that's done through Zapier and ActiveCampaign.
Edwin @ Snappic (42:16.408)
and.
Collin Slattery (42:19.557)
So it's it's through Zapier and Integra matte like you have to I guess it's make now you have to use both of them because not all the automations are in each Like you really need somebody who specializes in automations to set these up like they're not even all native things You need to do like web hooks and shit like that But you can automate just about anything
Tris Dyer (42:22.851)
Okay. Yeah.
in one or the other. Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (42:37.816)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (42:39.523)
Yeah, sure.
Edwin @ Snappic (42:43.544)
Yeah.
Collin Slattery (42:44.561)
And you can start making GPTs too to save you time and those are automations you can integrate too.
Tris Dyer (42:51.331)
That's it, yeah. Now the chat you can start to make your own ones, right? You can start to get it to learn what you're doing. Introduce it to Notion or something like that.
Collin Slattery (42:59.667)
Makes a ngram analysis a lot faster when you can have chat GPT do it for you
Tris Dyer (43:05.091)
Yeah, you're telling me you're telling me and so a lot of the processes are automated but then you have your own processes within the team that obviously makes sense when you're cross country in Latin America versus in the US and when it comes to you know following processes are you is that something you're looking for in the interview with these people is like how good are these people going to be at following processes or is it how good are they innovating at the process?
Collin Slattery (43:18.419)
Yeah.
Collin Slattery (43:30.035)
So I think there's just an acceptance that we're using processes and that they are not static, right? They're going to change and evolve and improve. And that's the thing. If you tell me this sucks, that's great. Tell me this sucks and you don't like it, but at least use it as it's written, because then you'll know what's wrong with it and we can make it better.
and constantly iterating on processes and making them better, making changes to them. This actually does get back to workload forecasting because we do track time for every single thing and like everything, all time is tracked by everyone down to like the task level. It adds probably five minutes of friction a day per employee. And I always tell people, look, I'm not tracking your time.
Edwin @ Snappic (44:09.238)
Oh.
Tris Dyer (44:09.953)
Mmm.
Edwin @ Snappic (44:15.574)
Oh.
Collin Slattery (44:22.931)
to like be like, hey, you worked 38 hours and 23 minutes this week. Like what happened? It's to get an accurate forecast on a profitability per client, right? Like our inputs are labor or costs are labor. If you don't know how much time went into the client, you don't know how much money you made or lost on the client. But then like accurate estimates for how long specific tasks take.
So that you can update those and you know, okay this person actually has 36 hours of work on their schedule this week like and you're reasonably certain that that is Roughly accurate for how long things take and also you can see if they take longer than the estimate Maybe they need some additional training. Maybe they don't understand something right? So All our time estimates like I can go back to 2014 and tell you like how much time I spent on a random task
So like, January 2015 I could find something like, how much you spent on email that month? And I'll be able to tell you.
Tris Dyer (45:23.991)
Like that, like that. And so you're using that very much to see how profitable it is per client that you're working with. And is there a point then you go, look, we're spending way too much on this. We either cut down on the work that we're doing or we fire the client or we make it more profitable.
Collin Slattery (45:40.659)
Yeah, yeah, it's like well are we are we? Spending too much time on things that don't move the needle in this client. Is it just?
It's gonna be too much work to get them where they need to go. And yeah, like we'll fire clients on profitability reasons, like pretty regularly. Or you have a conversation, like, look, we are not making money on you guys right now and we need to figure out a way for us to also make money. So maybe all those things that we've been asking you to do that you have really been dragging your feet on, because it's gonna cost you money. Like you gotta do that website implementation stuff and like really fix, you know, your emails, for example, because we need that.
Tris Dyer (45:59.555)
Interesting.
Tris Dyer (46:07.299)
Mm -hmm.
Tris Dyer (46:19.361)
Mm -hmm.
Collin Slattery (46:20.309)
in order to help us get you to a level where you can scale faster. Because we need to make money too, right?
Tris Dyer (46:24.387)
Makes sense. Yeah.
I hear you, I hear you. That makes a lot of sense. It makes a lot of sense. And like the, you know, the two words that are always the scorn of anyone in an agency world is time sheets, you know, and that's like, I don't want to do that. But at the same time, this is the legit reason why we're doing it. So we know if we can make money, we're in the money making business. That's what we're here for. That's what we're here for.
Collin Slattery (46:45.427)
Yeah, it's integrated into the the click up too. So like it's very easy. Like you you press it when you start you press it when you stop. Is it a little annoying? Sure. But you know get over it. And again, I'm not tracking it to be like I'm not tracking it to police your time.
Tris Dyer (46:57.091)
Yeah. Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (46:59.48)
Yeah.
Collin Slattery (47:04.211)
Right? I'm tracking it to police our profits and making sure that everyone gets to keep a job and like get good compensation. Like us making money is how everyone, you know, also makes money.
Tris Dyer (47:04.515)
Yeah, yeah.
Tris Dyer (47:13.571)
Mm -hmm.
Tris Dyer (47:19.203)
That's it. Down straight. Down straight. Well, listen, Colin, it's been a pleasure. This is some fantastic stuff that you're spitting out here. I mean, we went through so much around Google, around YouTube, and then started talking a bit about agency life. I mean, this has been fantastic. So listen, guys, thanks for everyone who reached this far. I've been Triss.
Edwin @ Snappic (47:36.792)
I'm Edwin.
Collin Slattery (47:37.779)
I'm Collin.
Tris Dyer (47:38.915)
Talk to you guys next one. See you soon.
Collin Slattery (47:40.883)
Bye.
Edwin @ Snappic (47:40.92)
Ciao.