How we got TikTok Shops to start working (and not just scaling)
Ready to stop guessing and start growing? Join Foxwell Digital Membership today, and plug into a network of expert advertisers who are just as committed to success as you are.
In this conversation, Tristram and Edwin chat with, Foxwell Founders very own, Courtney Fritts, to discuss the success of TikTok Shops and how it is working for different brands. She emphasizes the importance of having the right products for TikTok Shops and the need for a content flow to support the platform.
They also discuss the intricacies of advertising on TikTok, specifically focusing on TikTok Shops and they explore the importance of on-platform data in a cookieless world. Courtney also shares some of the challenges and nuances of TikTok ads, emphasizing the need to be a student of the platform and understand consumer behavior.
Key Takeaways:
How TikTok Shops can be successful for brands with specific products that are well-suited for impulse buys and quick conversions.
The importance of content flow and consistency in posting on TikTok before starting on TikTok Shops.
Why both value and conversion-based campaigns can work on TikTok Shops
Why collecting data and having a pixel on your site is crucial for TikTok ad performance, especially as we head into a cookie-less ecosystem.
Why testing different targeting strategies and content formats is crucial to finding success on TikTok.
How TikTok ads can have a significant impact on Amazon sales
Why it's so important to consider branded/non-branded search as well as overall lift in sales when defining TikTok Ad success.
Why being a student of the platform and understanding consumer psychology is key to creating effective TikTok ads.
To Connect With Courtney follow her here.
If you'd like to learn more about the Founders Community or want to become a member you can do so here.
Full Transcript:
Tris Dyer (00:00.53)
but say whatever you want. Nina's the editor, she's gonna be editing through this. I'm right, is that Edwin? She still is?
Edwin @ Snappic (00:09.034)
Yeah, Nina's editing she, uh, Blake's is done. She's just, I think she's waiting on one or two things from Andrew, but it'll be in tomorrow and then she started cutting. Uh, she started putting Sebastian's and I think it'll be, it'll be up very shortly after then this one will get this one get cut up pretty soon as well. Um, yeah.
Tris Dyer (00:30.414)
Love that. Love that. Just a word for yourself, Courtney. If you're... So what you'll see is if you go and hover over your picture and see the little square in the top corner, you'll see like a little box. Make sure that your view is good from a square point of view because as you saw in that recording there, the way it produces it, it stacks them on top of each other. So your view is... The mind is going to have the little circles here, for example,
Courtney Fritts (00:42.091)
Mm-hmm.
Tris Dyer (00:59.474)
while we can see each other in vertical, it'll be in horizontal in the post-production. All right, two other things. Have you used Riverside before?
Courtney Fritts (01:03.469)
Okay. Cool. Good to know. I have not. Shane just got me a login last night. I have not.
Tris Dyer (01:13.474)
Oh, nice. OK, so for you, just so you know, it will become very blurry throughout the thing. Don't worry about it. It's recording locally and uploading it. It actually says on the thing, I think it'll say actual recording higher quality. That's something to know there. Another thing, obviously, we're recording a pod here. We're just spitballing. If you're like, oh, I didn't like how I said that. Just say it again. We'll act normally. And you can just put a mark. I can put a marker in here to say to Nina, just remove that, which is cool as well. Other than that, be your cool self. And I think we're going to be good.
Courtney Fritts (01:24.502)
Yep, OK, cool.
Courtney Fritts (01:43.577)
Love it.
Tris Dyer (01:43.578)
You got the questions this morning. I've got paint all over my hands as well. So there you go, I'm painting my house at the moment. It's amazing how hard paint is to get off your hands. You won't wash them 50 times.
Edwin @ Snappic (01:52.67)
Oh, yeah, it's crazy. And then the importance of primer.
Tris Dyer (01:57.55)
Oh, who are you telling? Pro tip, sand between primer and putting the actual paint on. And it's just incredible, right? If you sand the wall, it becomes like it looks way better. But anyway, that's home improvement. I've just moved into my house, Courtney. So that's where we're at. Cami, have you been doing podcasts? Have you been doing many podcasts? Have you done podcasts before, Courtney? Tell us more.
Courtney Fritts (02:15.695)
That's funny.
Edwin @ Snappic (02:15.965)
Yeah.
Courtney Fritts (02:22.322)
I have, yeah. Probably like, I don't know, 10, 15 maybe, all marketing focused. Most have been virtual. I have had, I've done like two in person and that was pre-COVID, so everything else has been virtual.
Tris Dyer (02:36.668)
Perhaps someday we'll maybe in Amsterdam we'll do an in-person one Edwin, I don't know.
Edwin @ Snappic (02:41.73)
Yeah, I think we're well, uh, Andrew's coming in, uh, so I'll, I'll be in Santa Barbara in March with Andrew. I think so there'll, there'll be some sessions in Santa Barbara. And then I think Andrew's coming in. Uh, I want to say may it might not be, but like, I think, um, Andrew and the fam are coming, I forget when, but, um, yeah, or something like that. And then, um,
Tris Dyer (03:04.167)
I think it's A for it.
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (03:09.55)
I think we're trying to like hash out stuff like details and stuff as well. We're supposed to like get on a call or something.
Courtney Fritts (03:11.042)
So, I'm going to go ahead and start the presentation. first item, which is the presentation of the
Tris Dyer (03:14.622)
That'd be pretty cool. So yeah, on this one, what we'll do is we'll record for 30 minutes, 45 minutes or so. We'll do like the normal intro of like, this is Courtney, and again, we'll ask good details of that in a second. And then we'll talk through the different questions. And then we'll do the little outro. And all's good. We'll get it done in the hour. Gotta get this hair kind of chopped a bit. So.
That's where I'm after. Okay, Edwin, do you want to introduce us then? And we can go kicking straight in. I'll take off the first question then.
Edwin @ Snappic (03:45.57)
Yeah Courtney, how do you want me to intro you?
Courtney Fritts (03:50.939)
You can say I work with Foxwell Digital and have been running meta ads and TikTok ads for how long, what year is this? Like six or seven years, I guess. I've been in marketing for like 13 years.
Edwin @ Snappic (04:03.202)
Okay. Um, is there, um, is, is there any, like, um, are there any like bragging accomplishment, like not bragging, but like, no, like, cause, cause it's, it's different when it comes out of my mouth than when it comes out of your mouth, right, I could brag about you as much as I want. Um, and so like, are there any accomplishments that you're, you're proud of or, or that would be good, good for me to mention?
Tris Dyer (04:17.123)
and braggarty. Go the braggart.
Courtney Fritts (04:18.478)
Thanks for watching!
Courtney Fritts (04:24.487)
That's funny.
Courtney Fritts (04:28.216)
to
Courtney Fritts (04:33.154)
Great question. I have a master's degree in marketing and What else I kind of specialize in? Creative like creative strategy as an ad buyer as well as in small accounts So I have big accounts, but I kind of have a weird niche of small accounts because I think they're fun From the other anything else like award-wise Can't think of anything else
Tris Dyer (04:57.606)
definitely ask you about those small accounts because that's gonna be a lot of nub on that. Hang on, it's really not. I'm gonna be a little... judge me.
Courtney Fritts (05:05.122)
A lot of people just don't want to touch small accounts, you know, because they're significantly harder for less money, you know.
Tris Dyer (05:11.718)
Yeah, yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (05:11.894)
Yeah. Um, okay, cool. Uh, you, we're, we're good. We're ready. Okay.
Tris Dyer (05:17.943)
Yeah, I think we're good. I'm good anyway, I don't know about you Edwin, how are you feeling? Feeling pumped.
Edwin @ Snappic (05:23.12)
I'm feeling, I got a new table today. I feel great. I'll start seeing you guys later. All right, let's have a chat.
Tris Dyer (05:25.158)
Oh, braggie, I see what's talking about bragging. Talking about bragging. Okay, in terms of episodes, Edwin, do you know, I think this is the 23. We're doing 23, but I think there's like 30 something. Will we say, will we go episode, will we see what we do? No, you don't need to, you don't need to, welcome back. Welcome back.
Courtney Fritts (05:25.602)
Ooh, what a good day.
Edwin @ Snappic (05:39.45)
I have no idea, but do you have to call out episodes? I didn't think. Okay. All right. Welcome back guys. We got another one for you today. We have Courtney Fritts She is the full package when it comes to everything creative, everything TikTok Guys. I can't tell you, she actually went to school for marketing. She has a master's in marketing.
And she does marketing for a living for the last 13 years. She's been in the business for 13 years, which is a lifetime. She's going to tell us all about what's working with TikTok right now. A lot of you guys know her from Foxwell founders. She answers the questions. Tris kick us off.
Tris Dyer (06:21.138)
Nice one. Well, welcome Courtney. First one, I suppose I want to hear all about it, right? TikTok shops is killing it right now. We're hearing so much that it's working for different clients, different people are working really like they're seeing some really, really good results from it. Tell me, are you seeing TikTok shops working for you? And what are people in the community saying about TikTok shops?
Courtney Fritts (06:40.406)
Yeah, TikTok shops is all the talk right now and whether you're just scrolling TikTok as a user or as an advertiser, TikTok shops is really where it's at and if there's a brand that I have that can
be successful there or has the ability, just like the types of products to be successful there and really trying to push them to get on shops and test it out and really try to scale there. I think the biggest thing with shops is that it's very specific to what types of products will be successful on shops. Just because of the nature of TikTok and the way that people are just kinda like, their attention span is so short and they're scrolling and they're just wanting to buy things quickly. The nature of shops too, there's not.
Edwin @ Snappic (07:08.923)
Okay.
Courtney Fritts (07:20.83)
a super intuitive way to have lots of like SKUs lots of variants, sizes, colors. So it's shops is not for everyone. And I think that's like really important to call out and know that like it's okay if shops isn't for your brand. I also have some brands that do like customization type products and that can't be done on shops right now. And that's just the interface doesn't work for that. So know that it really needs to fit your brand. But for brands that have
Edwin @ Snappic (07:29.106)
No.
Courtney Fritts (07:47.05)
a few SKUs or have a very direct products that don't have sizes or too many variants. It can be such a good place to expand and test. I launched a brand. They had their brand new company, started them about seven, eight months ago. Started on TikTok ads to their DTC site. They did okay. We broke even. It was good. Drove a lot of traffic to their Amazon site, which is a whole other conversation of TikTok driving to Amazon and not being able to track it.
Edwin @ Snappic (08:16.251)
Hahaha.
Courtney Fritts (08:17.654)
So know that does happen. People leave TikTok and go buy it on Amazon for the free shipping all the time. But when we launched on TikTok, I do it, I know. But when we launched on TikTok Shop for that brand, it just took off and just the way that it's like, TikTok Shops is really for impulse buys and like intuitive, like, oh yeah, if this, then this. Problem solution, I need it now. TikTok is so fast and just the way that people's
Tris Dyer (08:23.39)
Hey, someone else did it.
Ha ha.
Edwin @ Snappic (08:27.259)
Yeah.
Courtney Fritts (08:46.038)
Like attention spans, you have less than two seconds to get them to watch a video. If you ever pay attention to yourself, watching TikToks, I really try to like think of myself as the user. And like, and when I'm watching, I'm scrolling and I'm like, oh, I scrolled after like one second. Why did I do that? Or I stayed and watched for six seconds. Why did I do that? Oh, this one, I like read all the comments because I'm like invested in this. So I really try to pay attention to like,
Tris Dyer (08:55.518)
Thanks.
Tris Dyer (09:13.166)
Yeah.
Courtney Fritts (09:15.358)
why I care and what I'm doing. And with shops, it's just like, oh, problem solution, I need this, buy this now. TikTok shops has done a really good job with trying to get people to convert on the platform with coupons, meta shops did the same thing a few years ago. And so I think if you have a product and a brand that is capable and makes sense to be on TikTok shop, maybe it's less than...
Tris Dyer (09:32.063)
Yeah.
Courtney Fritts (09:40.43)
10 or 15 products, you have an organic presence, you have the ability to make a lot of content or get a lot of content, then that's the biggest challenge with TikTok and TikTok shops is just like, you gotta be a content machine. It just, it needs so much content to be fed. So if you can do that, you need to test it out.
Tris Dyer (09:57.238)
I was going to say that it seems like a lot of our conversations at the moment are happening where it all comes back to content. If you're talking about meta, you're talking about anything with even Google at the moment looking at YouTube shops as a potential to come down the line. But with TikTok shops, I mean, this is the one thing that I like as a millennial in me is looking going, where's the trust? The people don't even care about trust anymore. They don't look at it and go, oh, should I be putting my card into this? They're just straight in. They're like, bye, done. They don't even worry about losing their card details.
It seems like that's not a problem anymore.
Courtney Fritts (10:27.918)
I feel like there are some people that I've seen, I've gotten into a weird algorithm on TikTok of people who are like, I'm not gonna buy on shops, stop giving me shops ads. And some people are slow to really buy into things. And I think that's a really small subset of people who are just not willing to do that. But that's gonna be on any technology, just people who are like not willing to do that. But I think for the most part, like at least for me too, one, I needed to get on TikTok shops and buy things because I needed to know what the customer like.
experience looked like, what the, you know, if I had to return something, what the emails look like, I needed to know that process. But also the coupons were so good. Like they started last like fall, summer, and I'm like 40% off. Like, yeah, get that in my cart now. The amount of improvs that I've made and like called it like a work expense, you know, just because I needed to learn. Like it's such, it is so easy. TikTok makes it so easy that it's, it's
Tris Dyer (11:08.722)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Take my money.
Edwin @ Snappic (11:17.992)
Yeah.
Courtney Fritts (11:23.374)
really a no-brainer to like literally you can click I think twice and have it done. And so making it so easy is really like what we are trying to do as marketers for consumers right now is make it as easy as possible, take out all the friction from, hey, you have a problem. You may not have known you have a problem, but you have a problem. Here's the solution. Here's how to fix it. And here's the cost. And it's like, yeah, the more that we can make this a no-brainer for people in marketing.
Tris Dyer (11:28.178)
Nice.
Tris Dyer (11:47.578)
Yeah.
Courtney Fritts (11:53.098)
the better. We don't need like, and some products have a really long conversion window and like, that's, that's okay. Cause some products do. But I think for TikTok shops, it's really, at least for now, it's really like that impulse buy, that no brainer that like, yeah, I for sure need this. Everyone's talking about it. Some FOMO. Like that's really where TikTok shops is really like doing so well and excelling right now.
Tris Dyer (12:15.975)
Interesting.
Edwin @ Snappic (12:16.178)
And so what do brands that like, so if you have a fashion, so for problem solution, e-commerce brands, right? So you're saying if I have a couple of SKUs, I'm a problem solution, e-commerce brand, TikTok shops for sure for sure is, is where I need to start trying. What about fashion brands? So what about fashion lifestyle brands? Is it still worth the try? What are the benchmarks that you're seeing for, for that side of e-comm?
Courtney Fritts (12:40.15)
Yeah, I mean, I always am, like, I will always say, it depends and like, let's test it. Those are like my two favorite things in marketing to say and I feel like anyone who doesn't lean into, it depends and let's try it out. I feel like you're like missing out so much in marketing. Like I need that on like a hat or a shirt, you know? But like every brand is so different. I think with like a fashion brand or something like that, having so many SKUs and variants is hard because
Tris Dyer (12:54.65)
Thanks.
Courtney Fritts (13:09.234)
Right now in TikTok shops, every item has every variant has to be a separate product. They don't have the ability to have like one product with like 10 variants. And with fashion, you would have sizes, right? You have at the very least, you have like five sizes. Maybe you have more. So let's say you have like shoes and you go from size, you know, five to 12. That's a lot of sizes with half sizes in there and then colors.
So right now, I think that it's a little bit harder, but one thing that I'm testing with one of my brands, it's a dog collar company, and so they have sizes for dog collars, which obviously there's hundreds of different sizes of dogs. And so what we're doing is we're choosing the top 3 products, so the top 3 colors or designs, and then providing those in all the sizes to test out to see like, you know, can TikTok shops be successful for us, even though they have thousands of variants based on
Tris Dyer (13:49.31)
Good job.
Courtney Fritts (14:05.25)
different, you know, there's four different types of collars, like where the buckles are, there's different designs, there's different sizes, they have harnesses, they have collars, they have leashes, and so they have bundles. And so with TikTok shops, the way that it's just set up, that's not gonna work exactly for them, but I still think it's worth testing. We're still gonna create like essentially a mini shop and then, you know, post TikToks of those products, link those products.
Tris Dyer (14:07.337)
others.
Courtney Fritts (14:31.147)
And then if people want more, they could always navigate themselves to the site.
Tris Dyer (14:35.678)
So that's interesting you're using that as like a discovery tool almost, like a kind of almost how some people are using Amazon in a way, because they don't want people necessarily converting on Amazon, but they can use Amazon ads if they've got a couple of products there. So they're doing the same thing in TikTok shops because they can't get a huge amount on there. That's a like a real smart way of doing this. And if I'm, so like we went, we went full bore. We went straight in here. We started talking about how amazing TikTok shops is and what we could do and how you can change the game. And I'm a brand, okay.
I've sold a couple hundred thousand last year on Shopify. I've got my meta ads running, that's good. And I've got my inventory orders sorted. Where do I start? And where do I start with this dancing app? The people that like, let's bring us back to the brass tacks. How do you start on TikTok Shops? Obviously you have to have a TikTok account and a business account. Talk us through that.
Courtney Fritts (15:27.882)
Yeah, so you have to have an account, have a business account, you need to create a business center, create an ad account, add an ad payment method, link your TikTok to your Shopify, there's an app on Shopify, connect those, make sure you have a pixel, and then follow through the process of connecting your catalog from Shopify to TikTok. I think other platforms might integrate with TikTok, but I had a plan on WooCommerce.
and she was working on getting over to Shopify. And so I said, let's just wait until you get to Shopify because Shopify is just better. Yeah, let's just wait until you get to Shopify. So make sure you have all that set up account-wise, pixel payment method, ad account, organic account. With TikTok shops specifically, the ads do have to be posted to the organic account and everything has to be a Spark ad. So you can't like launch.
Tris Dyer (15:56.923)
Yeah, yeah. It feels like Shelf Life is like the table of things, right? Everyone, if you're not used to it, okay.
Edwin @ Snappic (15:57.222)
Yeah.
Courtney Fritts (16:21.582)
a shop ad as an ad only. You could post it to the account, to the TikTok account and like set it up as like ad only, but as an ad buyer, you can't build it like on your computer in business center, you have to build it on the TikTok app. So that's something to keep in mind. But I think one of the most important things when you're starting TikTok ads or TikTok shops or your TikTok account, you have to have a content flow. You have to know how you're going to be getting
and making and posting the content. Because so many people are like, I just wanna do TikTok. And I'm like, okay, add a client yesterday. They're like, hey, what about TikTok shops? And I'm like, we need content. We can't start TikTok shops or TikTok ads at all until we have like at least 10 pieces of content. And like even at the minimum spend, which my minimum spend for a brand new client, if they're starting TikTok, I suggest $100 a day. At a minimum, that's a good place to start.
Tris Dyer (16:49.351)
interest.
Tris Dyer (16:58.652)
Oh.
Tris Dyer (17:15.37)
Gotcha.
That's on. And 100 bucks a day. Gotcha.
Courtney Fritts (17:20.058)
on ad spend. Cause I just like, TikTok, well one, it won't let you do less than I think it's $50 a day. But $100 is just one campaign, $100. I'm like, we need like 10 pieces of content. And like even at $100 a day, we need at least like two to 3 new pieces of content a month. So we need to know how we're getting that. You know, are we reaching out to creators? Are you making it in-house? Am I making it?
Tris Dyer (17:40.252)
Okay.
Courtney Fritts (17:46.218)
Am I reaching out to creators? Are you reaching out to creators? Are we using influencers? You know, are we sending out products? All of those things take time and like, and they also take money. So it's like, are we gonna seed creators? We have to send them content or we have to send them the product, we have to send them a brief. They have to film the content, they have to edit the content, they have to send it back, we have to approve it, and then we can make an ad. And so like having this plan is so important with TikTok because the creative is going to fatigue faster than meta ads. So if you've only done meta ads, you know that like, you could have an ad.
I have ads that are running for longer than a year, that are like 18 months old and they're just crushing. When you get a really good ad, that can happen, and that's great.
Edwin @ Snappic (18:19.323)
Wow.
Tris Dyer (18:24.584)
My record on that was like 24 months or something like that. It was a good enough.
Edwin @ Snappic (18:26.91)
That at 24 months? That's crazy.
Courtney Fritts (18:27.726)
And that's amazing, but like, that's not unheard of. Like that happens in meta. But with TikTok, you could have an ad that's just crushing and it just fatigues. And you just, you need more stuff to test people. And the way that people are just using TikTok and it's just like, swipe, swipe. Like you just, you have to have more content and TikTok frequency I've found is much lower than meta. On TikTok, it's very rare to get the same ad twice.
Tris Dyer (18:47.112)
Mmm.
Edwin @ Snappic (18:56.754)
Yeah. It's... no.
Tris Dyer (18:57.031)
Yeah.
Courtney Fritts (18:57.146)
I don't know if you guys have noticed that, but you really don't. If you do, then you're either very interested in the brand or the brand needs new creative because they're fatiguing. That's I think the most important thing. Yes, get your account set up and everything, but before you start, figure out what you're going to do with content, how you're getting it, how you're making it, and then you can start once you know what that process is going to look like.
Tris Dyer (19:22.9)
Mm-hmm.
Edwin @ Snappic (19:23.026)
So let's, let's talk about that. So, so different brands will have different ways of getting content flow. Right? So let, let's say if if you were the brand and let's say you were like a 20 to 30 K brand and you're, you're about to go into it yourself, how would you, how would you set up the content flow? And then if, if on the flip side, if you're a hundred to a quarter million dollar brand, how would then you set up your content flow, knowing what you know now?
Courtney Fritts (19:48.81)
Yeah, so there's definitely ways to kind of seed and find creators. I've been using trend.io. It's much better than I know, I'm sure we all used Billo back in the day and it's much, I found the quality is much better. So I've been using that, you buy credits and then you put out a brief, people apply, creators apply for the brief and then you accept it or deny them and then you send them a product. That's been good. In the Foxwell membership, we have...
Edwin @ Snappic (19:56.004)
Okay.
Edwin @ Snappic (20:00.419)
Hahaha! Yeah.
Courtney Fritts (20:16.382)
Mariah Lukashewich who is our creative matchmaker. And so that's like a new service that we have for this year where you can reach out to her. I literally reached out to her last night and I said, hey, I have a client. I need them to have kids that are like elementary school age for the product. And she gave me a list of four creators that I could reach out to and their portfolios. And I'm already sending product to one of them today. So that's an option.
Edwin @ Snappic (20:20.562)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney Fritts (20:41.818)
Um, for me, like I create content for a lot of my clients, if it's a product that I can, um, you know, if it's like a, I don't know, balding hair growth serum, I for sure couldn't do that. But like, if it's a product that I can like resonate with and like, I will create content. Um, Also like going to their organic Instagram or their organic TikTok and seeing who is tagging them. Um, If there's any like, you know, posts on their hashtag or that's tagged their account, that's a good way to do it. Um, and then yeah.
Tris Dyer (21:07.918)
Do you reach out to them directly then or how do you like you actually DM them be like, hey, I'd love to use more of this content.
Courtney Fritts (21:13.638)
Yeah, so you can literally just go on to like Instagram and like comment and be like, hey, I love this. Can I, Can we use this? Also I use the app, it's called archive.ai. It's a Shopify app where you can like sync your accounts and then you can send like a canned message that'll like DM them if you like connect your accounts and you could be like, hey, can I, can we use this piece of content? You know, respond with hashtag yes, brand name, whatever. And then it'll like go into like a folder on your archive.
Tris Dyer (21:23.805)
Nice.
Courtney Fritts (21:41.134)
So there's a lot of different ways to do it. There's not like a one size fits all. Every brand is different. If you're a bigger brand, you might even have like an influencer manager. You might have an influencer agency that's managing that. Maybe it's your organic social manager that is reaching out to creators and influencers and seeing like who is, you know, who's posting, what type of person they're kind of targeting and reaching out to them on organic.
TikTok or Instagram. So there's like so many different ways to do it. I think content is like such a roadblock for so many people, but I would say for any like brand owner, like don't be afraid to make it yourself. I know it sounds scary getting in front of a camera, but like I'm sure we've all like FaceTime before and like held a phone. I'm sure we've all like, I'm sure we've all taken a selfie before, right? Like it's 2024, we've probably all held our phone up and like looked at ourself on our screen. And so like, I know it's scary.
Edwin @ Snappic (22:14.066)
So good.
Tris Dyer (22:22.954)
The phone has no-
Courtney Fritts (22:36.742)
But people want to hear authenticity. They want to know the brand. If it's a small business, they want to know that a lot of people want to support small businesses. I have a client and I'm trying to get the two brothers who own the company and I'm trying to get them to be on camera. They have small kids. They have pets. People love kids and pets and they love small businesses. So it's like, yeah, just get on here and talk about it. Worst case scenario, it's not good. But I bet we can...
Edwin @ Snappic (22:58.372)
Yeah!
Courtney Fritts (23:06.286)
clip out some really good pieces. I bet we could use it at a mashup. I bet we can, you know, get more comfortable and get better at it. But there's just so many options and content is like, it's such a hard thing, but it's also like very endless. Like anyone can make content. That's kind of the beauty of TikTok is that like everyone can be a content creator, just be authentic. I think that's really what's selling right now, but also just like, I feel like that's not something that's gonna go away is like people want authenticity.
They want to see a video of like what exactly they're going to get whenever it shows up at their door. Like this is exactly what it looks like. This is exactly how it works. This isn't polished. This is it's entertaining. But yeah.
Tris Dyer (23:45.03)
Yeah, it's a TEMU thing, isn't it? It's a TEMU thing. It's like the idea of like, I can see this, this is what I'm gonna get. I know I'm not paying that much, but I know what I'm getting. I'm not gonna be getting like, I'm buying a Ferrari for fibres, but it's the toy.
Courtney Fritts (23:56.022)
Yeah. People don't want to be surprised when it shows up at their door. They want to get it and be like, this is so cool. This is exactly what I wanted. And so don't be afraid to just try to make the content. As an ad buyer, I didn't mean to get into content. When I started ad buying, I had a client send product and was like, oh, well, since you're doing our ads, here's some product just so you can have it. And I was like, this is kind of cool.
Tris Dyer (24:05.336)
Yeah, yeah.
Tris Dyer (24:20.446)
Peace and photos.
Yeah.
Courtney Fritts (24:23.906)
let me try to make something and see what happens. And then it just so happened that my creative started working and I was like, oh, let me look at this data and see what my thumb stop was like. Let's try a different hook and just kinda realize, pretend like you're talking to your sibling on FaceTime. Not your mom, because sometimes you gotta button up a little bit and be like, mom, I'm doing great, even if you're not doing great. But it's like when you talk to your sibling, talk to your best friend, and it's like, hey guys, I'm doing great.
Tris Dyer (24:40.265)
Okay.
Courtney Fritts (24:51.214)
I got this product and it is so cool. I have to show you. This is what my life was like before the product. This is what my life was like after the product. It is a game changer, changed my life. I love it so much. Here's how you can get it. Check it out. There's an ad.
Tris Dyer (25:03.646)
Love that. And then straight away, it's like, boom, here's the shop ad, click the people. And then you're saying two clicks, that person has the same thing and life's good. Everyone's happy. That's amazing. And so Courtney, just, I mean, taking things back. Sorry. So Courtney, taking things back a little bit. And I mean, we're talking about creative. We're talking about TikTok shops itself. So just talking about the numbers behind TikTok shops. So there's a huge drive towards this. And we're seeing a lot of people say, well,
You know, with Meta, we're seeing people saying, well, they would have bought that anyway. There's a big conversation around top of funnel and where it should be spending, et cetera, et cetera. With TikTok shops, what's working at the moment when it comes to actual running the ads? Is it a conversion-based ad? Is it a value? Well, what are you seeing actually working? How does that work in the backend? Is it just one ad campaign or a campaign type? Or tell us more about that.
Courtney Fritts (25:54.122)
Yeah, I find with TikTok, it's much more consolidated than even meta, even though we are talking about like consolidation on meta as well. I've tested both value and conversion. They're both pretty good. I think it's more dependent upon the brand itself. So like if the brand is like a little bit of a higher AOV, then maybe value would be better. But if it's a little bit of a lower impulse buy, then maybe conversion would be better. But I've done like...
maybe four or five A-B tests with different accounts of like value versus conversion, like solid scientific A-B tests. And they've pretty much all been the same and they've both been good. So maybe that's just like a nuance to my account. Maybe I'm just a wonderful ad buyer. But that's probably that. But that's probably like, if yeah, I would just say like it depends on like the brand and like what you think your customers are looking for. Are they more likely to buy multiple products? Are they more likely to?
Tris Dyer (26:28.094)
typical.
Tris Dyer (26:32.779)
It's best after you know.
Courtney Fritts (26:46.422)
be in that higher AOV range or are they more likely just to make like a one-time impulse buy? What is your like free shipping threshold? That could be a good thing. One thing to think about too with TikTok, unlike Meta, I know Meta reps will tell you to do like reach campaigns and view content campaigns and traffic campaigns and like don't ever do that. Like you should not do that. Reps are always just like, give us your money, give us your reach, reach is great. And no, don't run reach campaigns. Unless you're spending.
Edwin @ Snappic (27:02.518)
No! Word!
Edwin @ Snappic (27:11.723)
No.
Tris Dyer (27:11.778)
No, I don't.
Courtney Fritts (27:14.394)
over $3 million a month, don't do reach campaigns. But on TikTok, however, when you kind of go back and going back to our conversation about when you're getting started on TikTok ads, TikTok, differently than Metta, you really do need to like build the algorithm and TikTok reps do suggest starting with new content, then going to add to cart, then going to purchase. And that actually is what I've found as like the best practice for starting TikTok ads.
Edwin @ Snappic (27:17.202)
Yeah, no.
Edwin @ Snappic (27:27.343)
Wow.
Okay.
Tris Dyer (27:36.131)
Yeah.
Courtney Fritts (27:43.082)
because like TikTok just seems to need so much more data than Meta does. But, and it also has so much more data in terms of videos because Meta has a million different things you can do on the app or on Facebook, on Instagram. You know, it's not just reels or it's not just the feed, but it's like Facebook marketplace. And there's, if you're on desktop, there's a side thing. And then there's the feed and then there's stories and then there's reels and then there's all these things. But with TikTok, you got one feed.
Tris Dyer (27:46.526)
Mm-hmm.
Tris Dyer (28:07.121)
Explore!
Courtney Fritts (28:13.11)
You have the feed. And so there's a lot of video data you can get from there, but you actually do need to start with Add to Cart, get 50 conversions in a week, and then you can promote to initiate checkout, and then you can promote.
Tris Dyer (28:22.654)
Okay.
Tris Dyer (28:27.05)
So you start with 50, you go, because that's different within meta and Facebook ads, that a lot of the things are like, oh, you have to have 50 conversions, but it's really like 15-20. And you get away with that, and it starts to get out of learning. I mean, we'll go into that debate, but you start to get performance from that. But you don't change the optimization, you go straight for purchase and away you go. With this, you're saying you go view content, then you add to cart, then you purchase, is that right?
Courtney Fritts (28:36.876)
Mm-hmm.
Edwin @ Snappic (28:52.658)
Is this is that still that's still you because we started like that but now we just go straight for the kill and we are like straight into purchase and so
Courtney Fritts (28:53.023)
Yeah.
Courtney Fritts (29:02.19)
for even like brand new brands?
Edwin @ Snappic (29:05.326)
I'm, you want a shirt that says like, it depends. I have a shirt that says YOLO. And so, but, and so I'm interested to hear because I, I now at this point, we go straight in for the purchase, but you, you still, you still start them off slow. Like you slow roll them. Like.
Courtney Fritts (29:24.578)
I do think it's important to what size the brand is and how risky they're willing to be. I think that's a huge, it depends, because if they're just like, hey, we have $100K in investor funding that we need to spend in the first month to try it out, go for it. Then, yeah, go for it, try it. Go straight to purchase, do both, that's fine. But I think for a lot of my clients, is they're either small spenders or they're trying to really test and see if TikTok is a good platform for them, if it's something worth investing in.
Edwin @ Snappic (29:28.956)
Okay.
Edwin @ Snappic (29:37.817)
Yeah.
Courtney Fritts (29:54.814)
And I work with a lot of small brands. And so like they are a little risk averse. And I think a lot of my job is like hand holding, literally had a client email yesterday, it was like, hey, let's get you on TikTok shops. I think you'd be a great candidate for shops. You have 3 SKUs, super straightforward problem solution, let's do it. And they're like, oh, well, like I'm really glad that you've had experience doing TikTok shops before. Like I'm really like nervous about it. Let's wait, you know, what's like the lowest budget we could start with. And so I think it's really dependent upon
how risk averse they are. But for small brands, it actually is weirdly really important, I think, to get those 50 conversions to really get it to learn. Because when I have A/B tested, a new brand going from I'll run like an add to cart campaign and a purchase campaign, and like the purchase campaign just like won't perform or it'll do really poorly because it just doesn't know who is the right person to convert. Also it's important if you...
If you think you might ever run TikTok ads, go ahead and put that pixel on your site and start collecting data. If you think you ever might want to do that because TikTok just needs a lot of data and we always, some people are like, seizing the algorithm is like a conspiracy. It's not real. And like, I'm not here to debate that, but I do know that the more pixel data that my account has, the better the performance is. So take that as you will, but the more data, the better. And I think with TikTok, broader is generally better.
bigger audiences are generally better. There's just so much content to take in on TikTok and there's so much scrolling. And so the algorithm and the pixel really needs to know who the hell to target, you know, because there's just so many options. And so being able to go from add to cart or view content to add to cart, initiate checkout and then purchase really helps the algorithm figure out who is trying to convert. If it's a shops ad.
They need to get the shops out to people who are willing to convert on shops because some people are not willing to convert on shops. So like that's a targeting piece is are you willing to shop? You know, and then it's like, are you what type of person? Because even if you do interest targeting or look like targeting, that there's just there's so many people. And because of the way that TikTok works, people are taking in so many types of content. So I could I could have like a cat interest on TikTok. I don't have a cat. I don't really like cats. I love dogs. I have two dogs.
Tris Dyer (31:47.954)
Otherwise, you're not getting the same.
Tris Dyer (32:01.052)
Mm.
Edwin @ Snappic (32:13.714)
Ha ha ha.
Courtney Fritts (32:13.942)
But there's sometimes really cute cat videos. But if I get tired of it with a kitty litter box, that's not me. But I watched one cat video, so I might be in that audience. So the more data that the algorithm has to know, okay, so if someone watches one cat video, they might not like this kitty litter box. If they watch 100 cat videos, they might like the kitty litter box. So you need so many more data points, I think, on TikTok than meta.
Tris Dyer (32:20.69)
You know?
Tris Dyer (32:40.198)
It's interesting that we're, I'm sorry, this is a question that we didn't put in the thing, but this is actually, I like where this is going. So in a cookie list world, I mean, like, you know, we talk about the pixel and collecting the data, on platform data is gonna be much more important. So when they're watching the videos, how long they're spending on it, and they're buying on TikTok shops, all of that data comes and connects in that one profile. So that's gonna be a lot more important.
Like in a cookie list world, obviously, does TikTok have Kathy or anything like that? I don't know, but it's, yeah. And it's not easily available for sure, but it's certainly something that, you know, in the cookie list world, we're starting to learn a bit more about, you know, on platform data and how important that actually is. You mentioned there about lookalikes and things like that. Can you, what kind of custom audiences are you doing in TikTok?
Courtney Fritts (33:10.158)
I'm not sure. I don't know.
Courtney Fritts (33:29.09)
That's a great question. I'm doing a lot of like broad and auto targeting on TikTok, which is not targeting. They obviously don't have like ASC, but they do have auto targeting, which is essentially like their version of just like, let us take it from here. I've done some lookalikes, they do okay. Not like crazy good. They also don't have a ton of scales. So if I have had success with lookalikes, it'll be for like a week or two. But like, and like reps will tell you like, oh, you should try like a broad lookalike, but like they're okay.
Tris Dyer (33:36.799)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (33:52.766)
Okay.
Tris Dyer (33:58.388)
Mm.
Courtney Fritts (33:59.338)
worth testing, it depends. But I really don't see a ton of success with retargeting on TikTok. Generally, I leave retargeting for meta. You really need to think of TikTok as prospecting, first time heard of you, very, very top of funnel. Reps will tell you to try retargeting. Don't try retargeting, don't do it. Just leave it. Yes, don't try that. So mostly top of funnel.
Edwin @ Snappic (34:05.886)
know. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (34:20.606)
Just leave it. That's a big bug story in the Rechads. Yeah
Courtney Fritts (34:28.682)
Lot of broad lot of auto targeting and then a lot of like interest targeting so you can do Interest you can do like intent to purchase like shopping type interests. You can do like behaviors a lot of times I'll do like broad but with like a like gender or age constraint to try to like give Give the algorithm a little bit more direction but yeah, most of my Most of my accounts have maybe two to maybe 3 campaigns running different versions of broad. Maybe one is auto targeting
One is maybe like totally broad or like broad with like a gender constraint and then one might be like an interest ABO. Maybe have two different like interest types there. Definitely, obviously test it. Always be testing. Try different things. See what works. But then a lot of times too, like I'll still, even if I have a brand running shops ads, a lot of times I'll still run like regular ads alongside that. So like right now I have a brand, I'm doing two campaigns for shops ads and then one like D to C campaign.
where it goes to their website because you obviously can't mix and match those. The shops ads generally do better. However, I will say that, you know, obviously with shops ads, you're not losing any data. If you are, you know, in like a cookie list world, if you're purchasing on platform, that's like why meta shops and TikTok shops are a thing because we lost data. And so they're trying to keep that data in-house. So with TikTok shops, the data looks better. So you're like, oh, this is so great. We're doing so well. One, you're not losing data, but also
A lot of people on TikTok go, like they'll exit the TikTok app and go search for you on Amazon. And it's really hard to prove that. But like for the one brand that I started ads for seven months ago, we brand new brand, no one had ever heard of it. It was a new category on Amazon. They were the first product in like this new category on Amazon. And so there was no one searching for it. And so that's like a really cool case study to show that people were exiting meta or TikTok.
and going and searching for it on Amazon. They've had hundreds of thousands of dollars in Amazon sales now and they've never ran Amazon ads. It's all coming from people exiting a social platform and then wanting free shipping or more legitimacy of a new brand and going and getting it on Amazon. So that's hard to track, but it's definitely something that's happening. I actually started a new brand yesterday and I was like, I need either Amazon access or I need Amazon reports because I need to know. I'm trying to figure out the correlation between
Courtney Fritts (36:54.786)
starting to run ads and like your Amazon pick up and like how it's improved in performance. And they said, yep, totally can do. Actually, when we started running ads, we noticed like a significant uptake in our Amazon performance and we were wondering why. They're kind of like nudity to see. And I was like, I needed to know this information. Why didn't you tell me this? Right, and so,
Tris Dyer (37:14.73)
Tell me, tell me, there's a note for any client out there. Talk to your agency, tell them this information so they can make the changes.
Courtney Fritts (37:22.086)
Right. And so you can't track that, you know, but it's still people do that. Like I find myself leaving TikTok to be like, Oh, are they on Amazon? My mom, I was talking to her a couple of weeks ago and she was like, I was like, Oh, here's a product. I sent it to her on TikTok shops. And she was like, okay, let me look for that. And she went and looked to started like looking on Amazon. And I was like, I sent you the link to the product, the exact link. And she was like, no, I'm searching it on Amazon. And that's just like a way that consumers are acting. And it's just very normal. So kind of think about that too, whenever someone's like,
Edwin @ Snappic (37:22.887)
With this funny...
Tris Dyer (37:42.185)
Thank you.
Courtney Fritts (37:51.754)
What's the marketing impact? What's the ROAS of this one channel? TikTok might be breaking even. It's very, very normal for TikTok to break even. I tell most of my clients, if TikTok shows a 1X ROAS in platform, then we're good and we should keep scaling. Because like different than meta, TikTok like it's just, it's so different. But because they're leaving and they're going, they're Googling it, you'll see your branded search go up. You'll see your non-branded search go up. If they're like, oh, I saw this candle lamp and they searched candle lamp on Google.
Tris Dyer (37:55.315)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (38:04.038)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (38:18.94)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney Fritts (38:20.974)
You'll see your branded search go up, your non-branded search, and your Amazon go up when you start running TikTok ads.
Tris Dyer (38:25.166)
Interesting, interesting, because that's one of the things that we're seeing at the moment is that a lot of people are trying to justify the spend on TikTok because, hey, I'm getting a 0.5 on TikTok shops. What's going on? It's like, they're buying there, they're seeing it, they're going through, they're looking, look at the amount of time they spend on TikTok shop and look at your sales on your site. All of a sudden your site's gone up. Why is that? Because you started spending.
Courtney Fritts (38:45.546)
And they're like, oh, people are just going directly to my site, and I'm like, literally no one types in your website to see if there's a brand called whatever. Literally no one in the history of Ever has ever done that.
Edwin @ Snappic (38:50.686)
Hahaha.
Tris Dyer (38:55.452)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (38:59.072)
I'm sorry.
Edwin @ Snappic (39:00.242)
But I think that's so funny because you guys, you guys talk about like lift and like, how do I approve lift? But I actually found like the other way, like sometime I had a client one time who, who told me the same thing, like, I don't know, I don't know if it's giving me lift, I don't know if it's, I was like, turn, turn it off. I dare you. And yeah, and I did. And it happened like by accident one time it happened by accident and their payment method failed.
Tris Dyer (39:03.821)
Thanks for watching.
Courtney Fritts (39:17.911)
I dare you. It's like that TikTok, turn it off. Try it.
Tris Dyer (39:19.946)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (39:29.094)
And then all of a sudden they're like, they called me frantically and they're like, what's going on? What's going on? And I'm like, I don't know. And then I looked and I was like, ads are off. They're like, Amazon is dead. Like all these other channels are dead. I wonder why. Yeah.
Tris Dyer (39:42.186)
I'm a little worried what's happening.
Courtney Fritts (39:44.691)
Interesting.
Tris Dyer (39:46.066)
Yeah, she's that's interesting. That's that's mad. That's it's so funny how we talk about top of funnel impact and everything else like that and people are like, I can't measure it's like, well, measure it by turning it off. See what happens then. You know, so it works out. Now we're talking, now we're talking. Yeah, you got questions.
Edwin @ Snappic (39:56.026)
No, no, no. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, F-around and... F-around and find out. Ha ha
Courtney Fritts (40:00.782)
I'm sorry.
Edwin @ Snappic (40:05.394)
So tell me, we talked about TikTok, we talked about the benchmark being one, what are common gotchas? Like what are common sticking points that you see when people are starting to go more and more into TikTok ads?
Courtney Fritts (40:20.302)
That's a great question. Yeah, I feel like a lot of people just think that it's gonna be this magic new platform that's just gonna be so successful because they hear so many success stories. And I think with TikTok, it is a little bit of a long game and it's not going to be for everyone. And so a lot of times brands think, this is like, I wanna do TikTok because I hear my friend down the road or another business owner that I know said that it would be good. TikTok is just so nuanced.
Edwin @ Snappic (40:33.937)
Okay.
Courtney Fritts (40:49.538)
And you really have to like lean into what is going on right now. And like TikTok changes so quickly. And so that's why we say like, don't create content that's like trendy for ads. You can create it for organic and like that's fine. But if you're going to create it for ads, like you really need to be able to like have the ability to let it like be successful and run for a few weeks or a few months. So like there were a year ago, there was like the corn thing. And then brands were making, you know, it's corn.
Edwin @ Snappic (40:49.616)
Okay.
Edwin @ Snappic (41:15.07)
I'm going to go ahead and turn it off.
Courtney Fritts (41:18.442)
It's a big lump with knobs. It has the juice and they're like making these ads and it's like, they're still running those like six months later. And it was like, Oh honey, that's old. That's really old. And so a lot of times brands will like want to like get on that, like get on whatever bandwagon is going. But I think like it's smarter to like take a step back and like think about it more holistically. Um, also like I always tell my brands or creators or even myself, like be a student of the platform is like something that I've always said.
Tris Dyer (41:26.502)
Yeah.
Courtney Fritts (41:47.722)
I think I learned that in undergrad, was like be a student of the platform and figure out what makes you, kind of what we talked about earlier, what makes you shop, what makes you click, what makes you read comments, what makes you do these things. Because a lot of my brands, I'm in the target persona. I would buy things. I'm a millennial woman with a job who has expendable income. So of course, brands want me to buy their things. So what am I doing? What's making me do that? Or I'll ask my friends or.
Tris Dyer (42:02.931)
That works.
Courtney Fritts (42:15.026)
my parents or my sister or whoever. And I'm like, sometimes people, they'll send me ads that they like. And they're like, this made me click. And so I know that you do that for a living. And so like, I wanted to send it to you. And I'll ask them, why did you click? What did you like about it? And they're like, oh, I didn't know you were gonna like quiz me, but I think it's like so important like for yourself and then other people that are around you that are in different customer personas. What makes them click? Literally, what makes them click? What makes them interested? What makes them...
Tris Dyer (42:30.727)
Yeah. Yeah, it didn't work.
Courtney Fritts (42:44.77)
Like I'll be like watching someone scroll TikTok and I'm like, why did you only watch that for half a second? And most of the time it's so subconscious, no one knows. But if you start to think about it and start to kind of like question yourself, why did I do that? And then start to make content or create content or ask creators to make content according to like those things and as you start to pay attention to like that type of like consumer psychology and your own psychology, it's like such an unlock to.
Tris Dyer (42:51.613)
Yeah.
Courtney Fritts (43:13.054)
understanding why people are doing what they're doing. So yeah, I think the biggest like gotcha is just like, it's not going to work for everyone. Shops is not going to work for every brand, but like it's important to test it, try it. Like you never know, you know, but like, even if like for my dog collar brand, we had talked about, we didn't do it because we were moving over to Shopify, but we had talked about, they had like two products that were like a one size fits all. And we were like.
Edwin @ Snappic (43:23.635)
Okay.
Tris Dyer (43:37.96)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney Fritts (43:39.07)
what if we just do those two products on TikTok shops and do ads for that one product? Because that would make sense and that could work. And then it's an awareness thing and then people get the product and they're like, oh, this brand is really cool. Let me Google them. And then they go to their site and then there's like hundreds of products and they're like, oh, this is so great. I had no idea. I got this off TikTok shops. And so like it's important to try it out. Don't be afraid to test it. Even if it's with a small budget, test it.
Edwin @ Snappic (44:03.522)
And so with the long game, so you're saying it's a long game, you should try it out. Maybe it won't work for everybody. So how much should they, should they look to, to put in like how many AOVs before they, you know, they say, they call and they say, Hey, look, I don't think this is for me or like, you know, how many AOVs do you need to spend or how much time do they need to spend before, you know, you have a good sense of it.
Courtney Fritts (44:25.198)
It's a great question. My first answer is it depends. But to be more specific, so we kind of talked about like a minimum spend, generally I like to spend at a minimum $100 a day, which is $3,000 a month. So that's kind of like a first entry to the game, do you have $3K? And then I think it depends on like what type of data is coming in. It depends on like if you have a high AOV product or a low AOV product, is it an impulse buy or is it gonna take a week to purchase it? Or is it gonna take...
Edwin @ Snappic (44:28.668)
Right.
Tris Dyer (44:28.714)
I'm going to go.
Tris Dyer (44:42.23)
Mm.
Courtney Fritts (44:54.99)
28 days or 90 days. I ran ads for a brand in the past and it was like a high-end fashion brand and once we got into our post-purchase survey data, we found that people were... They had found out about the brand 90 to 120 days before they made their first purchase. And so we were like, guys, this is why like, you know, like prospecting is really hard. That's why we're at a 2X when you guys want to be at a 5X. But like people are thinking about it because people aren't going to spend $300 on a sweater that they just heard about.
Edwin @ Snappic (45:10.538)
Oh, whoa.
Tris Dyer (45:19.08)
Yeah.
Courtney Fritts (45:24.554)
It's gonna take them time. They're gonna get on the email list and they're gonna be like, oh, I want it, but I don't need it. Oh, this is really cool. Oh, look, they're running a sale. Let me try it out. And so back to like the TikTok specifically, like three grand a month, usually I think like a 3 month period would be a really good timeframe. It also depends on seasonality because a lot of brands or some brands are more seasonal. So whether it's like ski gear or like swim.
wear or it's a gifting brand. And so I think that really matters of like when you're starting it. So like January, February is really slow for my dog collar brand because people are not really interested in walking their dogs when it's like snowing outside. But they get really busy come like March through summer because everyone's outside walking their dogs. And so like, it's important, I think, to think about that and not launch it at a time where you're doing like where it's like a slow season for you because then your data is going to be skewed. But like generally, I would say like,
A month, like try to, can you commit to like K for a month and reevaluate? Can you just do a month, you know, that month and then kind of like revisit it, make changes, try new things, like maybe you turn off everything and try something brand new in month two. Maybe some things are working and you kind of like lean into what's working, make more of what's working, spend a little bit more on what's working, optimize it. But I think like for me, like 90 days,
at $100 a day, if you have nine grand, that's really like a good timeframe to really test and say like, can we be successful here? Is this a platform that is like a reasonable and like valid new channel for us?
Tris Dyer (47:06.731)
Love that. Love that. This is great, Courtney. There's some really good stuff in this. What I'm going to do now... Sorry, Edwin, do you have any more questions or anything that you want?
Edwin @ Snappic (47:17.74)
I think, let me think.
Tris Dyer (47:18.274)
There's a lot of stuff in there. We've got a lot of good content in there. As I'm doing, I'm going down to the list. I'm like, yeah, perfect, perfect. Because what would... Yeah, go on, sorry.
Edwin @ Snappic (47:27.627)
home. Yeah, no, I'm just checking the list.
Tris Dyer (47:29.594)
Yeah, because reason why I'm seeing that Courtney is what I'm going to do is to promote this. We're going to be cutting up like 30 sec clips, putting those on through talk and LinkedIn or whatever else. So as you're going through that, I'm like, right, mental note. That's where it is. I'm marketing it here on my side as well. So that's super.
Edwin @ Snappic (47:33.768)
Thank you.
Edwin @ Snappic (47:45.748)
No, I found out everything. I want to, so what 1x is your benchmark? Is that like, so your answer is always, it depends. So my response is most of the time, most of the time, what 1x is generally your benchmark is that right?
Tris Dyer (47:48.679)
Yeah.
Courtney Fritts (47:57.282)
You're learning.
Courtney Fritts (48:04.97)
Yeah, and two brands are like, no, my margin is like way different. Like I need to be at like a 3 X. Like, you know, look at the full lift. I think TikTok is so much more impactful on like your overall, like overall lift, overall MER Like look at what it looks like if you were to, and maybe that is a good plan too. Do 3 months of TikTok and then turn it off and be like, what's happening? And look and see like what changes and like the delay and that. But generally I tell my clients like,
Tris Dyer (48:10.398)
Mm.
Tris Dyer (48:26.63)
Yeah.
Edwin @ Snappic (48:27.634)
Hahaha.
Courtney Fritts (48:34.89)
This one's probably more of a 95 to 98% of the time. I say like if we're at a 1X on TikTok, you're doing fine. And look and see what the MER looks like. And as long as you can like operate on the MER, like just because you're gonna lose data with TikTok, they're not gonna purchase same day. They're gonna leave and Google it. And it's gonna look like a Google or branded search conversion. They might get retargeted with like some Instagram ads, you know, so there's on like an AIC or something. So there's so many other.
Tris Dyer (48:42.346)
You're winning.
Courtney Fritts (49:01.882)
variables with TikTok and just people aren't necessarily, they're not necessarily in the purchasing shopping mindset when they're on TikTok, especially if it's not like a very cheap impulse buy. If it's like a $20 or less product, that's when I've seen the most success with TikTok and TikTok shops because people are like, yeah, what the hell, I'll buy it and I'll try it. That's fine. But if it's like $50 or more, also like look at your free shipping thresholds on TikTok. And is that different than Amazon? Because if they're going to get free shipping on Amazon and it's the same price.
and it'll get there faster, they might be buying on Amazon.
Edwin @ Snappic (49:32.67)
and I'll see you next time.
Tris Dyer (49:33.894)
I wouldn't. Yeah, so smart, so smart. Think about where the people are buying versus where they're seeing it. And don't just
Edwin @ Snappic (49:35.863)
third.
Courtney Fritts (49:40.482)
Think about what you're doing. Like, if you see a product, you know, this is so cool. But the shipping is gonna take seven days and it's $4.99. Let me just see if it's on Amazon. And you go over to Amazon and it's the same price and you get it tomorrow and it's free shipping. I also would buy from Amazon.
Edwin @ Snappic (49:57.73)
Yeah.
Tris Dyer (49:58.227)
If they're humans, you're selling to humans. Be a human.
Courtney Fritts (50:00.592)
Right! Of course I'm gonna save money and get it faster, duh!
Tris Dyer (50:03.634)
Yeah, yeah, d*mn straight. Okay, cool. So in terms of wrap up, what we do is I go, I just kind of say, hey, we talked about this. Thanks for checking in. I go, I'm Trish. Edwin goes, I'm Edwin. You can say your name as well. Just, yeah, I don't know why we always did it, but like 20 episodes in, we're like, why are we doing this? Like, okay, whatever. Okay, cool, okay.
Courtney Fritts (50:22.734)
Great. I love it.
Tris Dyer (50:25.114)
Okay, guys, that's all we got time for. Thanks for checking in. We talked through so much, went through TikTok shops, what you should be doing, how you should be getting content for it. We talked all about what's working and how you can actually make this work and get on the platform. And then thinking about all the journey, from people seeing it to people actually checking out. So it's been a pleasure having you guys here. I'm Tris
Edwin @ Snappic (50:46.127)
I'm Edwin.
Courtney Fritts (50:47.342)
I'm Courtney.
Tris Dyer (50:48.23)
I'll see you guys next time. Thanks a mil Perfect.